Socialism vs. social justice 36 replies

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Quetron

USA

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28th August 2006

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#31 9 years ago

Then he asked me a surprising question: "Dr. Hedges, do you know how to catch a wild hog?"

The question was completely out of context regarding the day's classroom and lab teaching. I replied, "I'm not sure what you are talking about. Tell me."

"First," he said, "you find out where the wild hogs are roaming and feeding and then you put some corn out in the field. Soon they will come to eat the corn. You keep putting out the free corn. More wild hogs keep coming to eat the corn."

"So what?" I said. "That's normal for any animal."

"Be patient. I will tell you what comes next," he said. "After the hogs get used to your free corn, you put up a length of fence along one side of the feeding area. The hogs get used to it. You keep giving them the corn. Then you put up another section of fence at right angles to the first. You keep givin g them the corn. The hogs get used to the second fence. Then you put up another length of fence at right angles to the second section."

"You now have a U-shaped fenced area. The hogs get used to that section of the fence. You keep giving them free corn. Then you put another section of fence with a gate in it, making a closed area except for the gate. You keep giving them corn. Now, the hogs no longer are out in the fields, working to find their own food. They keep coming into the area to eat the free corn. They get used to the fenced area with the open gate. Then, one day you slam shut the gate when the hogs are inside the fenced area. The wild hogs are caught - they are your prisoners."

I understood then that the wild hogs were really the people of his native country and that the free corn was the enticements that the Communists were giving to the people.

"That's correct," the young man said. "Now, the hogs will not get anything to eat unless you give them food. You are in control. They depend on you to feed them, or they will starve. They can't get out into the fields and forests anymore to find their own food. They have probably forgotten how, as it is. They are your servants, your prisoners. They must obey you. Or else they starve."

"The hogs," he said, "were so accustomed to having the free corn, that they ignored the building of the fences that would eventually trap them. When the gate slammed shut, it was too late for them to realize what they had been blind to. The free corn was enticing, so effortless to obtain, but eventually the cause of their loss of freedom. The fence had been built; the gate had been shut."

At this point in our conversation, the young teacher , in a voice shaking with emotion and with fists hitting the desktop, loudly exclaimed, "This is what I see happening in America today! People are being offered free corn by the government. People are blind to the fences being built around them by the liberals - the socialists - and that is what frightens me! Just like it was happening in my homeland. The American people do not learn from history. And history shows that socialism/communism does not work."

"Take note of Russia. Has socialism been the best thing that ever happened to that country? Absolutely not! But socialism is what the American people are being fed, and they don't realize it. All they can focus on is the 'free corn.' They want more and more of the free corn. And this free corn is being fed to us little by little, and soon the gate will slam shut. I am very frightened, and also amazed, that the American pe ople don't see what is being fed us, and for what purpose." With that said, the young man sat down at his desk and continued to rub his painful back.

And I was silent in my chair. And afraid. For I could visualize the supposedly "free corn" being fed to our nation's people and our growing addiction to the "free corn". And I could see the gate being slammed shut. We, the people of the United States of America, because of our ignorance of history, because of our addiction to the supposedly "free corn," could soon be prisoners of liberal socialism.

POST SCRIPTS: How to Catch a Wild Hog (or The End of Freedom)

-------------------------------------------- Also there will always be rich people and poor people, it's not a governence job to make it equal, like George Soros and his friends want.




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#32 9 years ago
Quetron;5241400 "Take note of Russia. Has socialism been the best thing that ever happened to that country? Absolutely not! But socialism is what the American people are being fed, and they don't realize it.

:facepalm: Russia was only Socialist for what 1 or 2 years? For 80 more years they were Communist there's a difference. Now let's look at a actually socialist country, Sweden, Socialism has worked well there. If what you cite doesn't even have a good knowledge of history what chance does it have at actually knowing what Communism and Socialism are?

That same example could be used in Capitilism, I say you work for me you get food, but if the work you do becomes inferior or I decide that instead of using all the food I got from the farm to feed you, I use it to feed myself and to pay off my gambling debts, leaving you to sell your home and to live in a car, not just that but there's a machine I could buy to do your job better then you can, so I am considering laying you off, and hey you don't have any experience or credentials to get any other job, so you'd have to resort to being a cashier and the like and have little opportunity, poor people get poorer and rich people get richer.

Let's say I'm a steel company, with my low prices other steel corporations can't compete with me, so I get richer and become so rich that I buy out all other steel corporations, so now I alone regulate the price of steel, so I set it high, meaning the construction companies are at my mercy. This is the time when you need to socialize your economy, or else people with interests in making money regulate the economy, meaning you have to pass legislature to appease them.

Both Socialism and Capitalism have flaws, but neither Pure Communism or Pure Capitalism work, hell even the US doesn't have Pure Capitalism. Your assuming because there are some aspects of Socialism all of the aspects are going in.




Quetron

USA

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#33 9 years ago
Warforger;5241542:facepalm: Russia was only Socialist for what 1 or 2 years? For 80 more years they were Communist there's a difference. Now let's look at a actually socialist country, Sweden, Socialism has worked well there. If what you cite doesn't even have a good knowledge of history what chance does it have at actually knowing what Communism and Socialism are? That same example could be used in Capitilism, I say you work for me you get food, but if the work you do becomes inferior or I decide that instead of using all the food I got from the farm to feed you, I use it to feed myself and to pay off my gambling debts, leaving you to sell your home and to live in a car, not just that but there's a machine I could buy to do your job better then you can, so I am considering laying you off, and hey you don't have any experience or credentials to get any other job, so you'd have to resort to being a cashier and the like and have little opportunity, poor people get poorer and rich people get richer. Let's say I'm a steel company, with my low prices other steel corporations can't compete with me, so I get richer and become so rich that I buy out all other steel corporations, so now I alone regulate the price of steel, so I set it high, meaning the construction companies are at my mercy. This is the time when you need to socialize your economy, or else people with interests in making money regulate the economy, meaning you have to pass legislature to appease them. Both Socialism and Capitalism have flaws, but neither Pure Communism or Pure Capitalism work, hell even the US doesn't have Pure Capitalism. Your assuming because there are some aspects of Socialism all of the aspects are going in.

That is a mess of convoluted insanity talk, has nothing to do with the reason of the story.It has everything to do about the arguement at hand.Your examples are moot and pointless, and don't adress the issue. The quote you pick from all of that was not the reason for me to post, gaaaaaaaaghgh,nevermind this place is so far gone. And I know that story IS correct to speaking of human nature, not all this factory hireing or fireing.:rofl: I wonder why you don't post your real location, country.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

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#34 9 years ago

I don't care if I'm a prisoner of liberal socialism as long as the pen is nice and there's lot of free corn. You know what freedom is? It's over-rated. You can't put it in the bank when you're down on your luck, you can't eat it, you can't hold it to keep you warm. It's a word, a fragile ideology.

I want good health services, cheap healthy food, safety, jobs that will let me go and shoot at people in a far away country if I get bored; and I don't much care whether they're given to me by a tyrant or a saint.

And, really, while we might disagree on the size of the pen you don't want people to be without fences any more than I do. If people are free they're free to fuck you up, and you're simply not prepared to live in that kind of world.




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#35 9 years ago

Quetron;5241708That is a mess of convoluted insanity talk, has nothing to do with the reason of the story.It has everything to do about the arguement at hand.Your examples are moot and pointless, and don't adress the issue.[/QUOTE]

Yes I am pretty accustomed with your view of the world, anything that disagrees with you is insanity and loony.

Quetron;5241708 The quote you pick from all of that was not the reason for me to post, gaaaaaaaaghgh,nevermind this place is so far gone. [/QUOTE]

Right, this coming from someone who relies on how popular his news is to say there better.

[QUOTE=Quetron;5241708] And I know that story IS correct to speaking of human nature, not all this factory hireing or fireing.:rofl:

Yah sure, just 100 years ago people were worrying about Monopolies, 75 years ago people were convinced Capitalism fails, and yes that story is true, check the guys who lost there jobs which was hauling ice to refrigerators when electric refrigerators were introduced. May I remind you Capitilism tends to be glass? Let's say it gets a chink in it, when its huge people don't think about it because how could something so big fail? Eventually this chink grows larger and larger until people start point fingers at a group of people, the banks blaming the government, the government blaming the banks, the democrats blaming the republicans etc. Then people patch up the chink then go back to what they were doing.

I'm sorry but your the most ignorant person I've seen on the forums, you don't consider a opposing argument, laugh it off as "loony" then when someone questions the Jesus approved Fox news you fall back on your ratings, why do you even bother posting here?

[QUOTE=Quetron;5241708] I wonder why you don't post your real location, country.

Why don't you? And I live in America.




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#36 9 years ago

Socialism in an economic sense really has never existed any more then real Capitalism has. Healthcare, welfare, and all of these things are not "socialism" really. Socialism is control of resources and means of production by the people rather then an individual. Even in "Socialist" Europe the means of production are controlled by individuals, not the people. Except for a few select industries I believe.

And, really, while we might disagree on the size of the pen you don't want people to be without fences any more than I do. If people are free they're free to fuck you up, and you're simply not prepared to live in that kind of world.

And it is only the size of the pen we are arguing about. Has anyone suggested removing the fence entirely? Even Quetron has stated elsewhere that he doesn't believe in full capitalism.




Red Menace

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#37 9 years ago

Enters thread.

Warforger;5241542:facepalm: Russia was only Socialist for what 1 or 2 years? For 80 more years they were Communist there's a difference. Now let's look at a actually socialist country, Sweden, Socialism has worked well there. If what you cite doesn't even have a good knowledge of history what chance does it have at actually knowing what Communism and Socialism are?

Communist-led socialist state. The Soviet Union didn't claim to a be communist, nor would they be considered communist from a true Marxist standpoint. A communist state is contradictory to Marxism as the state "withers away" to form a communist society. Communism as applied to the Soviet Union was placed there by Western political scientists to distance it from Western European socialism. So really the difference is between democratic socialism and Marxist-Leninism.

"The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is a socialist state of the whole people, expressing the will and interests of the workers, peasants, and intelligentsia, the working people of all the nations and nationalities of the country" - Article 1, 1977 Soviet Constitution. The 1936 Constitution is similar but this was easier to find. The 1982 Constitution of the People's Republic of China also defines itself as a socialist state.


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