Special forces- Is it true about the seals? 63 replies

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Pb2Au

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4th October 2004

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#21 13 years ago

As much as we can argue back and forth about whether or not SEALS should be capitalized and other such irrelevancies, the original question was whether or not

Eastern special forces are better trained?

While the 'hellishness' of training undergone by recruits is close to the mark, and indeed a telling aspect, it is not the entire issue.I believe it is safe to say that, since the end of WWII, the USA has launched more Covert Ops missions than any single other country in the world. While this cannot be backed up as a fact (there is obviously no website detailing the secret government projects to all curious web-surfers), and this might be biased due to propaganda (the USA seems to *love* covert ops-based media, such as games, books and movies); the USA almost certainly 'intervenes' (read: 'meddles' depending on your ideology) with many more countries (or at least is discovered 'intervening' with) than European Covert Ops teams. Therefore, I would be partial to the idea that the United States has the best covert ops training, as they are obviously caught more than other countries. This could either indicate a lack of training in the stealth department, or could also be attributed to the amount of media coverage given in the US (a weak argument, but an argument nonetheless).

Secondly, we need to clear up 'Eastern'. Are you referring to Eastern as in Asian or Eastern as in Middle Eastern? Assuming you are talking about Asians, the answer would most likely be 'no.' Due to their military history, Asian cultures have developed the belief that covert military operations are dishonorable and, despite the debatable extent to which westernization has changed those views, I doubt Covert Operations exist in Asian countries to the extent they do in Western countries. This would indicate a lower budget/interest, which in turn indicates less effective training. However, assuming you are speaking of Middle Eastern countries, the argument is very debatable. Middle Eastern countries have extremely developed and effective counter-terrorism and -intelligence branches. Iran, for example, paradoxically has the world's safest airlines. This is because there are armed security forces with dogs and constant checkpoints in all airports, as well as two fully armed, combat trained 'air marshals' (read:'soldiers') at the front and the back of each airplane, who will not hesitate to open fire on anyone causing a problem.In resistance to interrogation, overall endurance and hardness, the average Middle Eastern soldiers seem to be on the whole more skilled compared to the average Western soldiers. However, since there is no reliable means to compare only Western and Middle Eastern Spec Ops in relation to training, you cannot efficiently answer this question without becoming a threat to someone's national security.




MR.X`

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30th April 2004

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#22 13 years ago

Security personel at airports with dogs do not qualify as special forces. I'm fairly certain that he is tatlking about Eastern European contries, being that the link is about Romanian spec ops soldiers.

This is the basic rundown, as far as I know, of the various special forces groups Germany, the UK, and USA. They traditionally have the best special operations soldiers in the world, and most other groups are based on one or more of the units mentioned here.

United States of America

  • SOFD-D
  • Para Jumpers
  • Navy SEALs
  • Force Recon
  • US Army Special Forces - Green Berets

United Kingdom

  • Special Air Service
  • Special Reconnaissance Regiment
  • Special Boat Service

Germany

  • Kommando Spezialkrafte
  • Grenzschutzgruppe 9



Crazy Wolf VIP Member

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#23 13 years ago

Good point. Although US Special Forces might get caught in the act more, its probably because they commit the act more. More experience=better troops, better background and information for training, and other such things.




MR.X`

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#24 13 years ago

Exactly, although cross training is excellent when dealing with special forces. Delta and the British SAS regularly take some each other's members for a year, to share tactics and that sort of thing.




Crazy Wolf VIP Member

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#25 13 years ago

Yeah, I'd love to get in on some of that. Then, you can pick and choose wht works the best. The only problem I can see with that is if there is any chance of the nations swapping spec-ops guys becoming enemies... But aside from that, a jolly good idea!

One nice thing about being an English speaker and future German speaker is that I would (potentially) get to train with all the good people!




Pb2Au

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#26 13 years ago
They traditionally have the best special operations soldiers in the world, and most other groups are based on one or more of the units mentioned here.

Where do you get that idea from? You seem to draw the conclusion that they are the best merely from the fact that they are the most well known (which is obvious, as all three are powerful countries who were, at one point in history, superpowers). Does publicity equal skill? As I stated before, on a topic like this that concerns classified information, you cannot reliably state a 'winner' in such a category. It would be like speculating which country has more and better Black Projects: entirely untenable...




MR.X`

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#27 13 years ago

Happened during World War Two. Some Russians trained in Germany before the war broke out. Of course, those guys where then accused by their Komissars of being spies, and were then beaten to within an inch of their lives. But let us not digress...

Hell, I'm tired of prooving my point. If you want to argue with me over this one, you post your evidence first. The burden of proof is now on your shoulders.




Crazy Wolf VIP Member

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#28 13 years ago

Yes, but you can make an educated guess, from seeing the training they go through and seeing the stuff that was either declassified or a screw-up




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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9th December 2003

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#29 13 years ago

USMA2010:smack:

It's the same f*cking thing!

America is not referring to the North American and South American states. It is a shortening of the name The United States of America. Understand? I hate having to do this every damn time someone makes this comment.[/quote]Hey you are the ones who dared to nam your country after two entire continents. "America" most of the time refers to the USA but it's still incorrect. I try to talk about the USA and US citizens whenever possible. ;)

[quote=USMA2010]Security personel at airports with dogs do not qualify as special forces. I'm fairly certain that he is tatlking about Eastern European contries, being that the link is about Romanian spec ops soldiers.

This is the basic rundown, as far as I know, of the various special forces groups Germany, the UK, and USA. They traditionally have the best special operations soldiers in the world, and most other groups are based on one or more of the units mentioned here.

United States of America

* SOFD-D

* Para Jumpers

* Navy SEALs

* Force Recon

* US Army Special Forces - Green Berets

United Kingdom

* Special Air Service

* Special Reconnaissance Regiment

* Special Boat Service

Germany

* Kommando Spezialkrafte

* Grenzschutzgruppe 9

I heard that our special forced (BBE, Commando's and I figure there are a bunch of others) actually are better trained or atleast just as well traind. Dutch special forces have been training/teaching SEALS (anybody knows of a source to confirm this? My brother showed me ones I think but I have no clue were this was claimed).




Gauntlet

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#30 13 years ago
*SW3D3*I read as late as today that the Swedish SSG is way better trained than Navy Seals and SAS, the only problem is that they don't have as much combat experience as SAS and NS has. And that is a big problem.

Where did you read this?