Subsidies to get more children? 28 replies

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#21 13 years ago
HmmmdonutAverage in America is 1.5 kids per family.

Lol, one and a half kids per family? So they have a kid and a torso?

I agree with Karst on this one. The reasons parents should want to have kids, is to have kids. Paying someone to have kids is ridiculous.




Relander

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#22 13 years ago
AfterburnerPaying someone to have kids is ridiculous.

The subsidy is there only for further encouragement to make kids, eliminating the financial issue from the decision. That's the point which seems to be somewhat hard to grasp.




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#23 13 years ago
RelanderThe subsidy is there only for further encouragement to make kids, eliminating the financial issue from the decision. That's the point which seems to be somewhat hard to grasp.

But that isn't how people will see it. They will abuse it because they will see it as "Being paid to have kids." I understand what you are getting at, but it just won't work out that way.




Joe Bonham

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#24 13 years ago

Funny, I was sure I already responded to this. Oh well. Must have been a glitch.

Average in America is 1.5 kids per family.

That is incorrect. The average rate per woman is about 2.2 - slightly higher than the minimal rate needed. Several liberal writers have published books on this, like The Empty Cradle, warning their compatriots that they need more kids - the "fundamentalists" have large families, while the feminists tend to only have one kid - if any at all.




Tas

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#25 13 years ago
PethegreatI can only hope that people will wake up and notice that their race is dying out.

I can imagine they don't care if their people die out long after they themselves have died. It's nothing to critisise; reproduction is an extremely basic instinct which serves no real purpose other than.. continue the species for the sake of it. That’s how nature works, but we have evolved to a point where we can control our nature. This is a good thing, there are too many of us on this planet as it is, the extinction of certain European bloodlines.. if you can call it that will somewhat curb the growth of our numbers.. at least for a while, until the people that like to breed like rabbits take over our land. Of course, before it gets that far European nations will feel the pain of a shrinking workforce as the population gets older.. but if that is the way it is going to be, then so be it. Offering people money to get kids is just.. not the way to go. If you cant afford one of your own, then I have reason to doubt your abilities as a teacher. I know it’s a generalization, but I believe it to be correct most of the time. It’s a complicated subject.




Nemmerle Forum Moderator

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#26 13 years ago

Let's be accurate here shall we, people moan about the lack of a workforce to do the bad jobs, not the lack of a workforce as a whole per-say. With advances in computing and other industrial technology we don't need all the people we once did, apart from crappy little street cleaning jobs and stuff like that there's simply no call for excess population. As it is our children have to compete for the best jobs, and we raise them all to believe that they can get the best job, all receive the job that their education befits them for. But that's not the truth, there aren't enough high-level jobs to go around. This coupled with the high cost of higher education makes people incredibly unwilling to go around picking up your trash.

So we get people screwing away on benefits because they aren't willing to work the crap jobs and can't get the good jobs. Ironically this tends to produce an underclass-heavy society as these people breed most and have children who tend to inherit their attitudes constantly reducing the higher-class portions of society who have to support these generations with their taxes.

Essentially subsidising child production would also have to modify education so that people were willing to work in the crap jobs and would be somewhat akin to funding the breeding of an underclass. Sort of like the Indian caste system but not quite that draconian.

As it is we import people who don't have our ideology to do the crap jobs, which risks making ourselves the minority in our own countries. It seems to me the solution is just to stop benefits except for terribly disabled people and child-services for children. People without much of an education could work or they could starve to death. The workforce is there, they're just not willing to do the lower-class work. We support them in their choice so they become dependant upon us. It's time to remove that crutch.




Joe Bonham

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#27 13 years ago

[COLOR=black]

I can imagine they don't care if their people die out long after they themselves have died. It's nothing to critisise; reproduction is an extremely basic instinct which serves no real purpose other than.. continue the species for the sake of it. That’s how nature works, but we have evolved to a point where we can control our nature.

[/COLOR] [COLOR=black][/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Motivation to reproduce doesn’t come naturally – it is one of the essential duties a society to provide such a motivation.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]Of course, such motivation does not just affect reproduction, it also affects many other things.[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]That’s why certain demographic groups tend to think in the long term better than other groups. For example, straight family men tend to think more long term than gay men – for the simple reason they are concerned about the future of their children.

This is a good thing, there are too many of us on this planet as it is,

[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]What are you talking about?[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black] the extinction of certain European bloodlines.. if you can call it that will somewhat curb the growth of our numbers.. at least for a while, until the people that like to breed like rabbits take over our land.[/QUOTE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]This does seem to be the consensus in Europe. However, your “bloodlines” won’t die out. Your culture will just die, and be replaced by something else – be it Islam, Evangelical Christianity, a rejuvenated breed of Catholicism, or something completely different. [/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]But this new culture will reproduce itself, unlike yours.

Of course, before it gets that far European nations will feel the pain of a shrinking workforce as the population gets older.. but if that is the way it is going to be, then so be it. Offering people money to get kids is just.. not the way to go. If you cant afford one of your own, then I have reason to doubt your abilities as a teacher. I know it’s a generalization, but I believe it to be correct most of the time. It’s a complicated subject.

[/COLOR] [COLOR=black] [/COLOR] [COLOR=black]So you believe you are doing the world a favor by letting your culture die out? Hmmm, self applied Darwinian theory![/COLOR]




Relander

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#28 13 years ago
Nemmerle;3238206As it is our children have to compete for the best jobs, and we raise them all to believe that they can get the best job, all receive the job that their education befits them for. But that's not the truth, there aren't enough high-level jobs to go around.

This is a thing that some people in these forums don't seem to grasp: all can't be economists, we need cleaners and storage workers too.

Ironically this tends to produce an underclass-heavy society as these people breed most and have children who tend to inherit their attitudes constantly reducing the higher-class portions of society who have to support these generations with their taxes.

I don't know about that, the middle-class is increasing all the time (at least here), being a large majority. In the USA, the situation is getting more into low-class & high-class society with deep distribution and not just economicly, but also socially.

As it is we import people who don't have our ideology to do the crap jobs, which risks making ourselves the minority in our own countries.

Depends much about the country.

It seems to me the solution is just to stop benefits except for terribly disabled people and child-services for children. People without much of an education could work or they could starve to death.

Quite harsh thinking there.

The workforce is there, they're just not willing to do the lower-class work. We support them in their choice so they become dependant upon us. It's time to remove that crutch.

I mostly agree with you. The society must be motivating for work and make working & enterpreuning clearly more attractive option than living off from benefits, not to mention cutting down side expenses from employing people. Though, I think we still need to offer the very basic benefits for people like state pension and livelihood subsidy.

Even though many unemployed would be willing to do work, it isn't so easy just to just walk to some employer and go to work. Like said: many unemployed are either over-age, sick or ill-trained for enterprises to hire them.




czech speacial forces

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#29 13 years ago
masked_marsoe;3233626If you want more workers, then it's much more cost effective to use migrants than to grow your own. Of course, then you get race problems, massive inequalities, and a subhuman underclass. But seeing as all Western nations already have unemployment, why is there a need for even more workers?[/quote] ok lets take mexicans for example. they come here, most of them illegally, and they take very low paying jobs and bring poverty to many towns by having a lot in one house. now lets be honest, no political incorrect shit, people are gonna look down on these people. but they are creating huge problems. one major one is simply being illegal and not having duties of citizens. then there is the language problem. many live here for over 10 years and still speak extremly bad english, because they watch spanish TV, radio, newspaper, stores. this automatically creates a divide between the population. and well i hate the idea of having two languages in this country, just learn english and its that simple. another problem is very large families. women come across the border with two children holding their hands while being pregnant. then they complain that they cant feed their family, well to bad, she shouldnt be having so many kids if she cant afford them. and then those kids drop out of school to help dad at work, and the process repeats itself. this and other things creates racism between the native population (americans) and mexicans. [QUOTE=Relander]That's putting all immigrants into the same basket which is not the case. I'm sure most of them are peaceful people who want to work to get their living instead of just causing problems around.

im sure many dount want to create problems but they do. my parents came here just like any immigrant, they learned english, saved money, and had kids when they could financially provide for them. now they are making more than the top 5% of in this country. and living the american dream but not doing stuff to create problems. first of all they came legally, waited a year or a little more for a vista (after leaving communist czechoslovakia). secondly they learned english and learned it well (even though they still speak czech at home). thirdly they did stuff when they are financially fit to do so, not having kids when they cant feed them. sry for late answer.