Supreme Court: 'Suspected Enemy Combatant' no Longer a 'Person' 78 replies

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#71 9 years ago
Crazy Wolf;5182678So, if they know he's blowing shit up, shouldn't they have some evidence they could turn over to the prosecution so Achmed doesn't walk free? Maybe video footage of him meeting with other confirmed terrorists/enemy combatants, some of his communications, some of his documents or plans?

Well that would depend on the situation. Could just be a bunch of soldiers saw him setting bombs, could be they found some explosive material in his possession. But that kind of evidence might not even hold up in court due to being inconclusive. After all people can lie, and the explosive material might not have been being used at all, might not have been his, or whatever.

Generally speaking, I trust the guys on the front lines to grab the right guy. They are there just doing a job and trying to stay alive, and are all around decent people. They don't really benefit by grabbing the wrong guy, if anything it puts themselves in a position where they might have to answer to making mistakes.




NiteStryker

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#72 9 years ago
Crazy Wolf;5182678So, if they know he's blowing shit up, shouldn't they have some evidence they could turn over to the prosecution so Achmed doesn't walk free? Maybe video footage of him meeting with other confirmed terrorists/enemy combatants, some of his communications, some of his documents or plans?

Why the hell are you treating these non rate sub human scumbags as if they were civilized people? Why do they deserve a trial when they would suicide bomb a pre-school in a heartbeat?




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#73 9 years ago
NiteStryker;5182693Why the hell are you treating these non rate sub human scumbags as if they were civilized people? Why do they deserve a trial when they would suicide bomb a pre-school in a heartbeat?

Why would Charles Manson deserve a trial? If it is like what you say it is you should have no problem finding evidence he didn't bother to clean up and a confession.




NiteStryker

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#74 9 years ago
Warforger;5182703Why would Charles Manson deserve a trial? If it is like what you say it is you should have no problem finding evidence he didn't bother to clean up and a confession.

If I watch him set up a bomb, that is his trial. He is convicted the second he buries it and runs off with the detonator in his hand. Hes lucky I let him finish planting the bomb instead of shooting him the second I saw him just on the side chance he would realize his mistake and leave.




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#75 9 years ago

EO Violation;5181813Human beings don't burn eachother alive, cut off eachother's heads, lop of arms, stone eachother, etc... Apparently it's a hard concept to grasp for you.[/QUOTE]

No, it's a very easy concept. Those who do inhuman acts may as well be... inhuman. I got it. But who determines who is... "not a human"? "not a legal entity"? You? Certainly not. The military? Of course not. The politicians do. And if you trust politicians with that kind of power, to strip anyone of all legal rights simply by calling them a "terrorist"... then you are a "useful idiot" (what Vladimir Lenin called communist sympathizers in America). And with America becoming more and more socialist, that term is becoming more and more appropriate.

EO Violation;5181813Seeing something on TV is one thing. Seeing a blood covered room, smelling the burnt flesh and blood is another. [/QUOTE]

Yes, I know you're traumatized. That doesn't make your point any more valid.

EO Violation;5181813Fuck. That. Shit.[/QUOTE]

Periods. For. Emphasis. Why, I just can't argue with such persuasive punctuation!

[QUOTE=EO Violation;5181813]They are enemy prisoners of war, and therefore have no right to trial. Our sole obligation to them is to keep them well fed, warm, and out of harms way until the war is over.

Are they now? How do you know? Or rather, how can you prove that to me? Oh, right, national security. I'm sorry, but I can't feel safe from my own government when american citizens can be declared "terrorists" and interned for the duration of a war that looks like it will never end - in other words, forever - without trial. You may be very careful not to put the wrong person in gitmo. But can you really make comments on who's all there? You're not the only government branch collecting terrorists. And, let's not forget that guantanamo bay has had so much press, the government is moving people to other, less widely known, places.

[QUOTE=EO Violation;5181813]My personal system would be let the Iraqis deal with Iraqi terrorists. After thirty days of that policy, the insurgents would be so scared of being caught, they'd throw down their arms and beg for forgiveness.

Hey, at least america wouldn't be involved. Maybe we could go back to policing our borders, instead of policing the world.

[QUOTE=EO Violation;5181813] *cracks knuckles* I hold the rank of staff sergeant (squad leader) in the United States Army. I'm currently deployed with Bravo Troop, 6 Sqdn, 1st Cav Regiment, 1st HBCT, 1 Armor Division in Kirkuk, Iraq, as a scout. This is my third tour, the previous as a sergeant (team leader) with the 3 BCT, 3 ID in OIF 5 in 2005. I was a PFC, then later a Specialist, with 2 BCT 3 ID in OIF 1, my batallion was the first American unit in Baghdad. We were moved to Fallujah in the Summer of 2003.

So yeah, I sorta know what I'm talking about.

Well, I can't argue with that.

Those who deny that history can happen again are... doomed to repeat it? That's brilliant! Thank you for the new maxim!
It's fail to remember.

Yeah, I know. I was making a joke. History can always happen again, because the majority of people do not know the first thing about history.

And face it, Obama is too much of a walking vagina to try and pull anything like that.

Oh I agree. But who will our next president be? What if we end up with Hillary? What if we end up with a real die-hard socialist running America? (our congress and judicial system have already been taken over). Do you think these laws and precedents will suddenly disappear after Obama is gone? Look, I'm no constitutional scholar, like Obama claims to be. I'm no soldier, like you. I'm not even as well-versed in history as I'd like to be. But even I can see that a law with the potential for abuse is a ticking time bomb, waiting for someone with the balls to come along and use it. And... given the history of the world, we've got one coming. Probably not Obama. Maybe not the next president. But people are becoming more apathetic, and laws like this pass all the time. Sure, it makes your job easier. Terrorists are locked away safe and sound. If there's some legal hitch, they're just declared non-humans and we keep them locked away. But is that the price of freedom? Convenience? Perhaps a few thousand lives? Is that all it takes to convert america to a legal system full of exploitable laws just ripe for some socialist president/congress/legislature to come along and abuse? Is that all it takes to buy a socialist america, without firing a shot? You talk about your experiences and how terrible they are, do you want that all to be for nothing, because you sat by while the rights of american citizens were trashed, under the pretense that "oh, this law applies to EVERYONE, but we promise to only use it to catch those terrorists"?? Look, this is not about you. This is not about anyone in the military, really. It's about politics. When government makes laws so that it's easier to catch terrorists, or drug dealers, or child predators, you can rest assured that they do not give a damn about you, the soldiers or cops. They are doing one of two things. 1) Trying to look tough, for the benefit of their constituents. They pass ineffective laws at best, and downright terrible laws at worst. 2) They are trying to get something done, and use national security, supporting the war, stopping drugs, or protecting children, as an excuse. Their real agenda has nothing to do with the bill it's tacked onto. Look at the healthcare bill Obama and congress are gushing over. DO you really think it's about healthcare? They don't give a damn about healthcare, they just want your money, and control over your life. You strike me as a republican, but hopefully you can see that the PATRIOT ACT was passed almost unanimously by republicans and democrats alike, not because they both liked it, but because it increased government power.

Oh please. Look at that website... Does it, even only at first glance, to be the sort of organization that can be relied upon to provide clear, consice, and unbiased reporting of the news?

No, it does not. All of this could be pointless arguing over a law that is a hoax, and I'll laugh if it is. But do you trust the liberal news media to report on something like this? Obama has a bad enough approval rating as it is, the news media is being very careful not to harm it any more. Here's another site, that may or may not be more legit: IPS

Let me break it down for you Sesame Street style.

We capture Achmed, leader of an IED cell. Achmed goes to Gitmo. Suits decide they can't convict Achmed of anything, so Achmed goes free. Achmed goes back to the Sandbox. We capture Achmed again, doing the exact same thing, again.

I hope that helped.

And what do you propose to fix that situation? Keep people forever? Just kill them?




Crazy Wolf VIP Member

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#76 9 years ago
NiteStryker;5182693Why the hell are you treating these non rate sub human scumbags as if they were civilized people? Why do they deserve a trial when they would suicide bomb a pre-school in a heartbeat?

If you catch him in the middle of setting a bomb, or if he's wearing a suicide vest, put a few bullets in him. If you capture him when he's not doing anything that warrants a bullet, then he gets a trial. That's sorta how this whole "we are superior to terrorists" thing works.

People can lie, but I'd think that if for some reason a bunch of troops saw him doing something (which somehow the suspect/perpetrator lived through), then their word might have some weight. Especially if their stories all match up and there are no major inconsistencies.

Having explosive materials in your possession isn't quite like your parents finding cigarettes. "They're not mine" isn't really a acceptable excuse.

If the guys on the front are good guys, then their testimony and the evidence they procure should stand up in court, and the guy will fry for it.

EO Violation, how many former Gitmo detainees have you run into?




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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#77 9 years ago
Crazy Wolf;5182782If you catch him in the middle of setting a bomb, or if he's wearing a suicide vest, put a few bullets in him. If you capture him when he's not doing anything that warrants a bullet, then he gets a trial. That's sorta how this whole "we are superior to terrorists" thing works.

Pretty much yes. Atleast it sahould give Achmet wqho happens to have sme technical/electronic junk laying around (because it's hobby/job/whatver) a fair chanche to prove himself innocent even if he was accused of "terrorism" and turned in by say, the neighbour down the street.

Though the only problem here is that I wouldn't know how often if ever, insurgents force innocent people to plant the road bom. It would be a smart move on there side if they could let their smart "fighters" crerate and plkan the bombs, but force some random joe (well, achmed if you wish) to actually fdig the hole, so that it won't be much of a los of they guy is shot while doing so or fucks up and blows himself to bits in the act.




EO Violation

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#78 9 years ago
Crazy Wolf;5182782 EO Violation, how many former Gitmo detainees have you run into?

Two.




Nemmerle Forum Mod

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#79 9 years ago
NiteStryker;5182723If I watch him set up a bomb, that is his trial. He is convicted the second he buries it and runs off with the detonator in his hand. Hes lucky I let him finish planting the bomb instead of shooting him the second I saw him just on the side chance he would realize his mistake and leave.

You screwed up, you should have shot him; instead you created a legal clusterfuck about his rights and so on. The thing is this should never have become an issue in the first place; we've given government the power to decide who qualifies as human, and they can then turn around and apply that to anyone. But they don't need that power to fight the war on terror. Achmed the terrorist leader goes to a tiled room somewhere and tells everything he knows before being vanished, Johny planting the bomb is shot and neither of them ever see, or need to see, trial - or somewhat more to the point the media.