Swedish Election 2010 32 replies

Please wait...

masked_marsoe VIP Member

Heaven's gonna burn your eyes

50 XP

16th April 2005

0 Uploads

8,063 Posts

0 Threads

#1 8 years ago

Another for the politics buffs.

Looks like another hung parliament - with the centre-right Alliance for Sweden Grouping (made up of Moderate Party, Liberal People's Party, Centre Party, and the Christian Democrats) with just under a majority (172/175).

Likewise the Red+Green Bloc (Social Democrats, Green Party, Left Party) is short of a majority, and the bloc lost seats overal, despite the Greens jumping from 7th place to 3rd.

  1. [COLOR=Black]Social Democrats[/COLOR] 113 [COLOR=Red]-17[/COLOR]
  2. [COLOR=Black]Moderate Party[/COLOR] 107 [COLOR=Green]+10[/COLOR]
  3. [COLOR=Black]Green Party[/COLOR] 25 [COLOR=Green]+6[/COLOR]
  4. [COLOR=Black]Liberal People's Party[/COLOR] 24[COLOR=Red] -4[/COLOR]
  5. [COLOR=Black]Centre Party[/COLOR] 22[COLOR=Red] -7[/COLOR]
  6. [COLOR=Black]Swedish Democrats[/COLOR] 20 [COLOR=Green]+20[/COLOR]
  7. [COLOR=Black]Christian Democrats[/COLOR] 19 [COLOR=Red]-5[/COLOR]
  8. [COLOR=Black]Left Party [COLOR=DarkSlateGray] 19[/COLOR][/COLOR] [COLOR=Red]-3[/COLOR]

Neither grouping wants to work with the Swedish Democrats, which has burst on to the scene with their first general election victory, playing the Islamic immigration card heavily. Their election ad was banned on Swedish tv

Spoiler: Show

Possible governments are:

  • Alliance for Sweden + Greens
  • Alliance for Sweden + Swedish Democrats
  • Red+Green Bloc + Liberal People's Party
  • Red+Green Bloc + Centre Party
  • Grand Coalition
  • Red+Green Bloc + Swedish Democrats

The Greens have stated a preference to remain in the Red+Green Bloc, but have also hinted they could join an Alliance government, though they don't want to work with the Centre Party (which would make an Alliance government impossible).

Both sides have very strongly said they won't work with the Swedish Democrats, but they hold the balance of power...

I bet that the Alliance grouping will fold first, and let the Swedish Democrats into the government coalition.




Huffardo

Arrrr!

48,770 XP

29th November 2003

0 Uploads

4,632 Posts

0 Threads

#2 8 years ago

The Alliance is frankly retarded if they continue to refuse to cooperate with the Sweden Democrats, it's understandable that they tried hard to make the party look far-right to scare voters into voting for them instead, but now they shouldn't have any reason not to act like a grown-up political party and cooperate rather than pulling the Nazi-flag.

The Swedish Green Party is way too extreme for their own good, but if the Alliance is willing to enrage their voters by e.g. doubling fuel taxes, I'm sure they will be more than happy to join a new government with their former enemies. The Alliance could however easily avoid this suicide by starting to treat the Sweden Democrats with some respect.

I'm quite pleased to see the Sweden Democrats make it into parliament, the immigration policy of the Social Democrats has made Sweden a pathetic mess heading into destruction, and this is a sign that the Swedes themselves have started to acknowledge it.

The way the Sweden Democrats and their supporters have been treated is a disgrace, I can't believe how people consider it acceptable to assault them in the streets, ban their commercials, threaten their voters and even isolate their children. This whilst the Social Democrats and their infamous leader, Mona Sahlin, who repeatedly has been caught for illegal activities, are allowed to e.g. march voters into polling stations. :(




masked_marsoe VIP Member

Heaven's gonna burn your eyes

50 XP

16th April 2005

0 Uploads

8,063 Posts

0 Threads

#3 8 years ago
Huffardo;5397647The way the Sweden Democrats and their supporters have been treated is a disgrace, I can't believe how people consider it acceptable to assault them in the streets, ban their commercials, threaten their voters and even isolate their children. This whilst the Social Democrats and their infamous leader, Mona Sahlin, who repeatedly has been caught for illegal activities, are allowed to e.g. march voters into polling stations. :(

Yeah, what I've seen of it is that the SD have been treated extremely harshly, and undemocratically.

The stance of the major parties means that it fosters an 'us vs them' mentality, which probably aids the SD's chances.

This whole thing looks rather typical of (north-)European elections over the past few years - the major parties are increasingly clustering into the centre and becoming less distinguishable, while the Greens and nationalists grow on the left and right, which neither side wants to deal with.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

The Bad

217,236 XP

7th December 2003

0 Uploads

20,015 Posts

6 Threads

#4 8 years ago

If the Swede Democrats resort to advertisements like the one posted above they only have themselves to blame for being labelled right-wing extremists. With a bigoted fearmongering video like that they probably wouldn't have a lot of trouble cooperating with the German NPD.

I agree that most European centrist parties overlook the problems that immigration causes, but that is no justification for populist nationalist parties which conveniently ignore the problems a lack of immigration poses and the fact that past immigration waves have been absorbed by western democracies despite the cries of impending doom by right-wing extremists.




Commissar MercZ

Notable Loser

300,005 XP

29th January 2005

0 Uploads

27,113 Posts

0 Threads

#5 8 years ago

Meh, I don't care much for Swedish Democrats. It's easy to use immigration as a bashing stick but it doesn't forgive their other views. If I'm not mistaken the party has roots in an old neo-nazi group that disbanded in the 1980s and rebranded themselves into what they believed would be a more acceptable image.

Swedish Democrats are distrusted because of the actions some of the people on their end of their spectrum have done. A major trade unionist Björn Söderberg was assassinated by two neo-nazi thugs. Another time some of them back in 2008 attempted to burn a family alive in their apartment because of their syndicalist sympathies. When they make TV advertisements like the above it doesn't help matters either.

Though it's a common trend in all European countries with parties sprouting up on the immigration issue and trumpeting nationalism and positioning themselves in such a way that a centre-right government will have to recruit their support if they don't want to try and pull something from the opposition. I don't know, for what it's worth I feel a lot more accepted here in America than my relatives do in Sweden right now, and that's saying something.




Huffardo

Arrrr!

48,770 XP

29th November 2003

0 Uploads

4,632 Posts

0 Threads

#6 8 years ago

masked_marsoe;5397652Yeah, what I've seen of it is that the SD have been treated extremely harshly, and undemocratically.

The stance of the major parties means that it fosters an 'us vs them' mentality, which probably aids the SD's chances. [/QUOTE] Exactly, I doubt that SD would have made this well in the elections, had media and the major parties actually allowed an immigration debate. If a major party also had acknowledged the terrible situation and presented plans to fix it, SD would never have made it into parliament.

masked_marsoe;5397652This whole thing looks rather typical of (north-)European elections over the past few years - the major parties are increasingly clustering into the centre and becoming less distinguishable, while the Greens and nationalists grow on the left and right, which neither side wants to deal with.[/QUOTE] Indeed, although our Green Party for a while was heading the same way as the major parties, it has now made efforts to distance itself from the center with odd suggestions such as following the purely insane Swedish model and discard our defense forces, and the True Finns, our only credible populist party, are growing fast (partly thanks to stirring hatred towards the Swedish-speaking minority).

[QUOTE=MrFancypants;5397668]If the Swede Democrats resort to advertisements like the one posted above they only have themselves to blame for being labelled right-wing extremists. With a bigoted fearmongering video like that they probably wouldn't have a lot of trouble cooperating with the German NPD.

Some of them may not be the brightest people, but does that really justify calling them racists, Nazis and just generally dangerous madmen? Does it also justify political violence and sabotaging the voting process?

And why ban a commercial for being bad and rather air ones that tell people that not believing the establishment is "un-Swedish"? Those are a bit funny though, "un-Swedish" is usually used in a positive context.

[QUOTE=MrFancypants;5397668]I agree that most European centrist parties overlook the problems that immigration causes, but that is no justification for populist nationalist parties which conveniently ignore the problems a lack of immigration poses and the fact that past immigration waves have been absorbed by western democracies despite the cries of impending doom by right-wing extremists.

Someone has to take up the issue before it is too late. It's a shame it requires a separate party, but when the situation is as extreme as in Sweden and the ruling parties and the mainstream media together use any means available to keep the immigration problem out of public discussion, there is no alternative.

Not being able to as much as mention the immigration issue without being labeled a racist and risk bodily harm is a sign of a society gone very wrong.

Please show me what problems e.g. Finland, which in my opinion has a far healthier immigration policy, is facing due to a lack of such massive immigration? Many indicators appear to suggest that a relatively homogeneous and functional society fares a lot better than the multi-cultural mess that is viewed as the ideal society by e.g. the Swedish Social Democratic Party.

Anyone who follows the situation can see that this immigration wave to Sweden isn't being absorbed anywhere, or do you consider massive ghettos, riots and increased crime signs of successful integration? It's not only the sheer numbers of immigrants Sweden accepts that is the problem, but also, perhaps most importantly, the complete failure to integrate them into Swedish society. People who immigrated to Sweden earlier and integrated successfully are now forced to cope with unbearable conditions in their neighbourhoods, so it is perhaps not very surprising that the Sweden Democrats have support also among immigrants, despite the potential consequences ("traitors" are not treated gently).




Nemmerle Forum Mod

Voice of joy and sunshine

298,655 XP

26th May 2003

0 Uploads

28,168 Posts

6 Threads

#7 8 years ago
MrFancypants;5397668I agree that most European centrist parties overlook the problems that immigration causes, but that is no justification for populist nationalist parties which conveniently ignore the problems a lack of immigration poses and the fact that past immigration waves have been absorbed by western democracies despite the cries of impending doom by right-wing extremists.

Problems from a lack of immigration? I struggle to think of any party that advocates preventing doctors from immigrating, or dentists or the like. Past immigration waves, in times when we had a more diversified employment base. Most of the areas into which past immigrants were absorbed have shrunken dramatically.




Commissar MercZ

Notable Loser

300,005 XP

29th January 2005

0 Uploads

27,113 Posts

0 Threads

#8 8 years ago

Huffardo;5397840

Please show me what problems e.g. Finland, which in my opinion has a far healthier immigration policy, is facing due to a lack of such massive immigration? Many indicators appear to suggest that a relatively homogeneous and functional society fares a lot better than the multi-cultural mess that is viewed as the ideal society by e.g. the Swedish Social Democratic Party.

It doesn't immunize Finland from economic troubles. Or any other nation for that matter. North Korea is one of the most homogeneous populations in the world and that doesn't guarantee it will have smooth sailing.

Most of these countries that had brought in immigrant populations was for the purpose of spurring on economic growth by keeping a pool of cheap and available labor while reserving other occupations for their main populace. It was in their interest however to keep these people in the same situation to reap rewards from them as much as they can.

When it backfires and they get backlash, they will naturally focus back onto

Someone has to take up the issue before it is too late. It's a shame it requires a separate party, but when the situation is as extreme as in Sweden and the ruling parties and the mainstream media together use any means available to keep the immigration problem out of public discussion, there is no alternative.

I remember something similar being said about another set of parties long, long ago...

Not being able to as much as mention the immigration issue without being labeled a racist and risk bodily harm is a sign of a society gone very wrong.

That doesn't excuse the platform of the Swedish Democrats.

Anyone who follows the situation can see that this immigration wave to Sweden isn't being absorbed anywhere, or do you consider massive ghettos, riots and increased crime signs of successful integration? It's not only the sheer numbers of immigrants Sweden accepts that is the problem, but also, perhaps most importantly, the complete failure to integrate them into Swedish society. People who immigrated to Sweden earlier and integrated successfully are now forced to cope with unbearable conditions in their neighbourhoods, so it is perhaps not very surprising that the Sweden Democrats have support also among immigrants, despite the potential consequences ("traitors" are not treated gently).

Swedish Dems only gain support among certain immigrants, say copts or christian types from the Middle-East who would naturally be at odds with the other communities. Really the same way with the BNP and that Sikh guy they brought along.

Though I don't think that it's easy to say economic woes are pinned on immigrants. They are more apparent to the average citizen and their actions are more visible, but I think more damage to the economy comes from those guiding it and the commanding sectors of economy. When these guys screw up its easier to channel the discontent against immigrant communities rather than looking at the economic policy.

Really along time ago here in the United States people said the same thing about the Irish and Italian communities in New York, with their communities being rife with crime, social disorder, poverty, etc, and that it was hopeless to integrate them.




Huffardo

Arrrr!

48,770 XP

29th November 2003

0 Uploads

4,632 Posts

0 Threads

#9 8 years ago

Commissar MercZ;5397839Meh, I don't care much for Swedish Democrats. It's easy to use immigration as a bashing stick but it doesn't forgive their other views. If I'm not mistaken the party has roots in an old neo-nazi group that disbanded in the 1980s and rebranded themselves into what they believed would be a more acceptable image. [/QUOTE] Immigration is an important issue, not a bashing stick, but what else of their views do you consider bad? I'm not exactly a fan of their support of Israel, which understandably angers a lot of people, but anything else?

The party was founded in 1988 and has since toned down their nationalist image, including throwing out extremist members, so I'm not sure it is appropriate to judge them by a somewhat shady past more than 20 years ago.

Commissar MercZ;5397839Swedish Democrats are distrusted because of the actions some of the people on their end of their spectrum have done. A major trade unionist Björn Söderberg was assassinated by two neo-nazi thugs. Another time some of them back in 2008 attempted to burn a family alive in their apartment because of their syndicalist sympathies. When they make TV advertisements like the above it doesn't help matters either.

They certainly have their share of shady supporters, but basing such intense hatred on the actions of a few criminal neo-nazis does seem both unfair and far-fetched.

[QUOTE=Commissar MercZ;5397839]I don't know, for what it's worth I feel a lot more accepted here in America than my relatives do in Sweden right now, and that's saying something.

The acceptable thing in Sweden is to love immigration and everything foreign, whilst despising everything Swedish, but the truth is that they don't care about anything else than looking generous. Immigrants are thrown away in ghettos and given welfare money so that the establishment can brag about multiculturalism, but no support or incentive to integrate, so the fact that they end up living in their own circles, fighting with their enemies who were placed next door and doing no good shouldn't surprise anyone. When there naturally are no jobs for hordes of unskilled people with poor or no command of Swedish, the easiest way to support yourself is to turn to crime. Fully retaining your old culture and making a living from crime is of course not going to make the general population like you all that much, and unfortunately for those who are actually peaceful and productive members of society, it isn't always easy to tell the scum apart from the good people.

I'll have to see if I have time to reply to your other post later. :)




MrFancypants Forum Admin

The Bad

217,236 XP

7th December 2003

0 Uploads

20,015 Posts

6 Threads

#10 8 years ago

Huffardo;5397840 Some of them may not be the brightest people, but does that really justify calling them racists, Nazis and just generally dangerous madmen? Does it also justify political violence and sabotaging the voting process?

And why ban a commercial for being bad and rather air ones that tell people that not believing the establishment is "un-Swedish"? Those are a bit funny though, "un-Swedish" is usually used in a positive context.[/QUOTE] I don't generally endorse calling anyone you dislike a nazi, but in this case you have a populist nationalist party with the policy of encouraging immigrants to leave. That sounds a lot like the Nazi party in the 1930s or like the current German neonazi party NPD.

As for sabotaging the voting process - that is not ok, considering how many seats they got the democratical process doesn't seem to be affected though. The commercial may be stupid but banning it only gives those guys another media boost, for that alone I wouldn't advocate banning the ad.

Someone has to take up the issue before it is too late. It's a shame it requires a separate party, but when the situation is as extreme as in Sweden and the ruling parties and the mainstream media together use any means available to keep the immigration problem out of public discussion, there is no alternative.

Not being able to as much as mention the immigration issue without being labeled a racist and risk bodily harm is a sign of a society gone very wrong.

One sort of extremism will always provoke a reaction from the other side, but I doubt that nationalists in Sweden have to endure as much hate crime as immigrants.

Please show me what problems e.g. Finland, which in my opinion has a far healthier immigration policy, is facing due to a lack of such massive immigration? Many indicators appear to suggest that a relatively homogeneous and functional society fares a lot better than the multi-cultural mess that is viewed as the ideal society by e.g. the Swedish Social Democratic Party.

Maybe Finland is the lucky exception (if you can call a lack of industrial growth which often leads to increased demand for migration lucky), but many European states need qualified immigrants. Some even need any type of immigrants to sustain their rental system that is collapsing due to the superior western lifestyle. I think Finland suffers from this problem as well, maybe not to such a big degree though.

"Indicators" and a "relatively homogeneous society" are too abstract to comment on. That can mean anything from "I prefer my immigrants to be integrated" (agreed) to "I want to exclude people from migrating here based on their religion and skin color" (nah).

Anyone who follows the situation can see that this immigration wave to Sweden isn't being absorbed anywhere, or do you consider massive ghettos, riots and increased crime signs of successful integration? It's not only the sheer numbers of immigrants Sweden accepts that is the problem, but also, perhaps most importantly, the complete failure to integrate them into Swedish society. People who immigrated to Sweden earlier and integrated successfully are now forced to cope with unbearable conditions in their neighbourhoods, so it is perhaps not very surprising that the Sweden Democrats have support also among immigrants, despite the potential consequences ("traitors" are not treated gently).

That's great, but where did I suggest that Sweden's immigration policy is the best thing ever to happen to this planet? Why not form a "party to rationally solve the problems caused by badly planned migration" instead of voting for extremists?

[QUOTE=Nemmerle;5397843]Problems from a lack of immigration? I struggle to think of any party that advocates preventing doctors from immigrating, or dentists or the like. Past immigration waves, in times when we had a more diversified employment base. Most of the areas into which past immigrants were absorbed have shrunken dramatically.

Depends on the nation in question. Some states need qualified immigrants, some need them for demographical reasons. Apart from solving problems at home immigration also allows to deal with problems elsewhere (asylum for political refugees). And succesfully establishing a multi-cultural society has benefits of its own (such as greater acceptance for other cultures which is important if you're really interested in qualified migrants that don't really like to those countries filled with nationalist extremists).