The Conquest of America... was it right or wrong? 70 replies

Please wait...

Von Mudra

Lo, I am Mudra, za emo soldat!

50 XP

25th September 2004

0 Uploads

7,064 Posts

0 Threads

#21 11 years ago
Meyerlifts;4931039Actually, I have to disagree with you on 2Ā½ points.

Guns, Germs, and Steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its a BOOK.




Zipacna Advanced Member

Re-heally?

44,378 XP

10th January 2008

0 Uploads

4,283 Posts

59 Threads

#22 11 years ago
Locomotor;4931258That's a laugh. The Spanish conquerors did not go to observe and report, they went to do what they did best, conquer. No imperialist adventure in history has been for altruistic reasons, even if the state involved professed as much. Colonial powers (and their neo-colonial counterparts today), especially the most powerful one in the world at the time, sought to open new markets and steal the wealth of the indigenous (not that I am apologizing for the Aztecs, they were a brutal, ignorant civilization).

Well, your (our) civilization isn't ignorant? And yes, the Spanish were such a peaceful and civilized bunch themselves, weren't they? :rolleyes: Come on. They didn't want to bring their Christian world order to a new world so everyone would live in a perfect society following the ideals of Jesus Christ and neither did they want to open new markets. They couldn't have sold their stuff there. And the people were rather reluctant to give up their freedom, so they weren't good to serve as slaves also. The Spanish only wanted one thing (which you mentioned, too): Gold and land! (and since land basically leads to wealth, you can pretty much say that gold was the only thing they were after...)


sigpic191442_14.gif



Locomotor

in spite of erosion

50 XP

13th May 2004

0 Uploads

3,490 Posts

0 Threads

#23 11 years ago
DarthZipacnaWell, your (our) civilization isn't ignorant?

Well, sure, but we haven't institutionalized mass sacrifices to appease the gods, at least not quite yet have we?

And yes, the Spanish were such a peaceful and civilized bunch themselves, weren't they?

Did my analysis there really make them appear peaceful? Maybe I have lost my touch. :rolleyes:

neither did they want to open new markets

Well, no, I meant that as a general motivation for colonial enterprise.




Zipacna Advanced Member

Re-heally?

44,378 XP

10th January 2008

0 Uploads

4,283 Posts

59 Threads

#24 11 years ago
Locomotor;4931413Well, sure, but we haven't institutionalized mass sacrifices to appease the gods, at least not quite yet have we? [/QUOTE] No. (Since we are talking about the Spanish at that time: ) I'm just disturbed by the fact that the Spanish, English, French and Potuguese slaughtered hundreds of people for an economic reason, not even for religion. And a lot of people in the "Western world" think they are morally superior to any country in Arabia while some of them say "Why don't we torture people who have committed bad crimes, they earned it!" (which is so unbelievably hypocritical...)
Locomotor;4931413 Did my analysis there really make them appear peaceful? Maybe I have lost my touch. :rolleyes:
See above. [QUOTE=Locomotor;4931413] Well, no, I meant that as a general motivation for colonial enterprise.

Concerning that, you are basically right (if your motivation is to trade the things from your destination for something else instead of just killing everyone to be able to simply take it).


sigpic191442_14.gif



Locomotor

in spite of erosion

50 XP

13th May 2004

0 Uploads

3,490 Posts

0 Threads

#25 11 years ago
I'm just disturbed by the fact that the Spanish, English, French and Potuguese slaughtered hundreds of people for an economic reason, not even for religion.

Of course you don't mean to imply that religious reasons would be better?

Trust me, I did not intend to give the impression that I believe there is some immense moral superiority between the US and anywhere else. At the moment, Western nations may pretend to command higher moral authority, but there is hypocrisy abound. That being said, we do not institutionalize mass human sacrifices, and that speaks a little bit at least to our progress.




Zipacna Advanced Member

Re-heally?

44,378 XP

10th January 2008

0 Uploads

4,283 Posts

59 Threads

#26 11 years ago

I didn't say you believed that, I was just saying that there are a lot of people that do. And I do not imply religious reasons are "better". I'm just saying that the Aztecs were doing what was right by them while the Spanish called themselves followers of a religion that was founded by someone who is entitled "Prince of Peace", that ring a bell?


sigpic191442_14.gif



NiteStryker

Biggest F-ing A-hole 2010

215,560 XP

24th April 2003

0 Uploads

18,771 Posts

0 Threads

#27 11 years ago

So again, religion does great things for humanity...such as forcing people to open the chests and take out the hearts of fellow man just to keep the day going.

Can you imagine how pissed the families were when they found out the sun sets and rises again without the sacrifice....oh man...




The_Geek_With_The_Gun

Keep whining Im reloading

50 XP

25th May 2007

0 Uploads

3,321 Posts

0 Threads

#28 11 years ago
Can you imagine how pissed the families were when they found out the sun sets and rises again without the sacrifice....oh man...

Haha... yeah that would be a little sad. :p




Meyerlifts

I'm too cool to Post

50 XP

16th June 2009

0 Uploads

13 Posts

0 Threads

#29 11 years ago

From the way I see it that Spanish screwed themselves over in multiple ways. Sure they brought down a massive empire in a very short period of time and then they got rich. But before the New World was discovered, what great took place in Spain? Oh yes they threw out all Jews who controlled their fiances. When Cortez returned with all the gold, Spain didn't retain it. It ended up spreading out all through Europe.

Also, onto the part about athleticism. I'm not making up bullshit when I say that an Aztec warrior could cover 400 meters in a minute. We have kids who are 13 or 14 and they can run 400 meters in a minute. Heck most highschoolers who run the 400 meter dash do it in about 40 seconds. I'm talking about grown men who have much better diets and have been running their entire lives. I was making a simple comparison.




The_Geek_With_The_Gun

Keep whining Im reloading

50 XP

25th May 2007

0 Uploads

3,321 Posts

0 Threads

#30 11 years ago
NiteStryker;4931178If we were to get our asses kicked, then whoever did it gets our land.

I think we are gonna destroy ourselves before anyone else does that to us.