The Religious Thread...... 1667 replies

Please wait...

Guest

I didn't make it!

0 XP

 
#1651 8 years ago
Emperor Benedictine;5515198You need to understand that talking about how demanding the requirements for life are is meaningless unless you can establish that the universe is unable to fulfil those demands on its own. So far although you have laid out some of the problems for planets to be able to support life, you have put forward absolutely nothing that supports your argument that the universe as a whole is incapable of overcoming those problems on its own, through blind natural processes. Given sufficient opportunities over a sufficient amount of time, even the most remote possibilities that can occur, should be expected to occur. Demonstrate that this is not the case with earth-like planets. The scarcity of planets discovered that are capable of supporting complex life does not demonstrate it.

Rather than responding to the excesses of replies I have received, I think the response I will give to Benedictine will sum up almost everything. You are absolutely correct, there is the possibility that aliens can survive in environments that are donned too extreme for us, but we have yet to prove this. When you state that that I lack proof to contradict this theory, I think it safe to say that we lack the evidence to prove it as well, so in a way the door swings both ways. Until we can travel to other star systems and identify the abundance of life in the universe, I still find it to be too much of a coincidence that we're here because of evolution alone. Heck even if there was an abundance of life, I'd still be doubtful that the universe just evolved out of coincidence.

Also, a quick response to Mr. Pedantic.

Also, if a planet has a large enough atmosphere, the heat distribution could make such a zone much larger than just a ring around the planet. Looking at Venus, for example, despite the slow rotation period, there is hardly any difference between the day and night sides, because of its thick atmosphere and clouds that redistributes heat through the atmosphere very effectively. Compare this to Earth, where even in 4-5 hours of darkness the difference can be 30-40C in desertified areas of the globe.

I suppose that I should have brought this up, but Venus has a runaway greenhouse gas effect due to the increasing heat of the Sun and its close distance to it. As a result, most if not all areas on Venus are incredibly hot, even on the night side. Earth has a faster rotation and has a minor runaway greenhouse gas effect, but nowhere near the likes of Venus. The closest we have gotten to a planetary greenhouse gas disaster was probably the ice age. Gliese 581 g having a runaway greenhouse gas is a possibility, but you need to remember that its parent star is a red dwarf and it is not as close to its star relative to Venus' distance from our sun. Hence, until we actually go to Gliese, we cannot confirm that it has reasonable temperatures on both sides. In fact, if anything, its larger size may actually hinder the transfer of reasonable heat to both sides. I am no astronomical expert, and a lot of this is trivial, but I really can't see a tidally locked planet holding sophisticated life unless we can modify somehow. But, until we find the evidence necessary to prove this or otherwise, the debating will have to continue. :/




Emperor Benedictine

You can't fire me, I quit

55 XP

16th April 2005

0 Uploads

2,437 Posts

0 Threads

#1652 8 years ago
Gfxer2010;5515462Rather than responding to the excesses of replies I have received, I think the response I will give to Benedictine will sum up almost everything. You are absolutely correct, there is the possibility that aliens can survive in environments that are donned too extreme for us, but we have yet to prove this. When you state that that I lack proof to contradict this theory, I think it safe to say that we lack the evidence to prove it as well, so in a way the door swings both ways. Until we can travel to other star systems and identify the abundance of life in the universe, I still find it to be too much of a coincidence that we're here because of evolution alone. Heck even if there was an abundance of life, I'd still be doubtful that the universe just evolved out of coincidence.

Although true, that's not really the point I was making. You stated that the requirements for life are demanding. Earth obviously fulfills those requirements. However, it seems to me there is insufficient basis to claim this must be due to anything other than chance, or that earth is the only planet of its kind in the universe. As a planet, earth does not have any particularly miraculous or unique qualities. It just has a particular set of natural qualities that happen to be conducive to the development of life. In the grand scheme of things (billions of years and innumerable planets in the universe), such an arrangement does not seem all that spectacularly unlikely to occur on its own - if not many times over.




Adrian Tepes Forum Mod

King Jellyfish

262,192 XP

10th September 2007

4 Uploads

21,779 Posts

1,759 Threads

#1653 8 years ago
Emperor Benedictine;5515260although I think there can be only one answer that does not involve self-deception.

And that is?


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Emperor Benedictine

You can't fire me, I quit

55 XP

16th April 2005

0 Uploads

2,437 Posts

0 Threads

#1654 8 years ago
computernerd;5516770And that is?

That believing in things without any reasoned basis has no validity at all, since the normal function of logic is being arbitrarily ignored.




Granyaski VIP Member

High as a kite

107 XP

29th May 2008

0 Uploads

11,881 Posts

1 Threads

#1655 8 years ago
Emperor Benedictine;5515605 As a planet, earth does not have any particularly miraculous or unique qualities. It just has a particular set of natural qualities that happen to be conducive to the development of life. In the grand scheme of things (billions of years and innumerable planets in the universe), such an arrangement does not seem all that spectacularly unlikely to occur on its own - if not many times over.

:agreed




Totes

Misanthrope

92,890 XP

7th January 2011

0 Uploads

8,664 Posts

0 Threads

#1656 8 years ago

And see to me, that goes against everything I've ever been taught, been raised to believe. Not necessarily that "everything happens for a reason", but really that Earth is our home and it is special, its a blue jewel shining and unique amongst the stars and it is our home. And when you take that viewpoint into account, humans have really been given a precious gift and look what we have done to it! We're ruining it.

I'm not really up for a debate, I'm just throwing my opinion out there.




wjlaslo

I've defected to the Pies

50 XP

13th August 2004

0 Uploads

2,762 Posts

0 Threads

#1657 8 years ago

Totes McTurner;5516897And see to me, that goes against everything I've ever been taught, been raised to believe. Not necessarily that "everything happens for a reason", but really that Earth is our home and it is special, its a blue jewel shining and unique amongst the stars and it is our home. And when you take that viewpoint into account, humans have really been given a precious gift and look what we have done to it! We're ruining it.

I'm not really up for a debate, I'm just throwing my opinion out there.

I would agree, Earth is special. To me, and to you. But the universe has not shown any sign of sentience, let alone favor to Earth. In fact if you count up all the times it's been pummeled by asteroids and split open by volcanoes and just generally screwed up by the universe, it almost seems hostile.

So yes, I agree, Earth is a very special place, and if is the only place that has life, it truly has cosmic importance. But only to other things that live - something that isn't alive doesn't care.




Flash525

The Carbon Comrade

50 XP

14th July 2004

0 Uploads

15,103 Posts

0 Threads

#1658 8 years ago

Just a thought here, I've already said most of what I think on the matter before, so I needn't go through it all over again.

Anyway, Earth; yes it's a unique planet, and as far as we know, its the only one of it's kind. We've found other planets that are of similar size, and of which are at a similar distance from various stars, but whether they're actually anything like Earth is still to be discovered.

Point #1 - 'Life' doesn't necessarily have to be how we perceive life to be.

Generally, we think of life as a creature that that inhabits the earth. If there was another planet out there; lets say an ice rock for arguments sake; a cold planet about the same distance away from the a sun as Jupiter is right now. What's to say there isn't aquatic life with really hot blood living under the ice of said planet?

What's to say there isn't a desert-based creature that is capable of living on a barren rock like Mars? What's to say there isn't a creature that could live in toxic conditions like those on Venus? The simple matter is, we don't know. We think that life needs to exist in a similar habitat to us, when that might not be the case.

Point #2 - In regard to Earth and the type of planet. It is true that Earth (as far as we know) is alone in the kind of planet that it is. Personally, I believe there are similar planets out there - simply, if the Universe could create one planet like Earth, it's going to have created other ones too. I find it hard to believe that Earth just came to be the only planet of this design to ever have 'become'. If you've got one hot rock (Mercury) you've got another (Venus). If you've got one Gas Giant (Jupiter) you've got another Gas Giant (Saturn). Granted these are only the ones in our solar system, but it shouldn't be specific to such.

Then there is technology. If, in the unbelievable possibility that Earth is alone in the Universe, then it's only a matter of time before we design the technology to terraform lesser planets. Granted that's after we develop and utilize space travel, but once we get up there, and once we find other planets (Earth-like or not) some genius is going to design a terra-forming machine that'll transform other planets. Through that, Earth wont stand alone.




Adrian Tepes Forum Mod

King Jellyfish

262,192 XP

10th September 2007

4 Uploads

21,779 Posts

1,759 Threads

#1659 8 years ago

^I think, in regards to #2, we'd have to first learn to take care of ourselves and come together as a civilization before we can actually attempt to get that far.


"I'd shush her zephyr." ~ Zephyr.



Bobindashadows

LOL WUT

50 XP

4th September 2007

0 Uploads

2,201 Posts

0 Threads

#1660 8 years ago
computernerd;5517551^I think, in regards to #2, we'd have to first learn to take care of ourselves and come together as a civilization before we can actually attempt to get that far.

... which in any cases is not going to happen anytime soon.