Treaty of Lisbon? 9 replies

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Zipacna

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11th January 2008

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#1 10 years ago

This mabe will not be of great interest for the non-EU members here but: What do you think about the Lisbon Treaty (end of 2007)? Do you think it's just another way to get the failed EU constitution signed? Do you think it's good to do it that way?


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Karst

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6th January 2005

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#2 10 years ago

Honestly I can't understand all the argument about it. It doesn't really change that much, strengthens the EU parliament a bit, sets new majority rules so that someone idiot head of state like Kaczynski can't block something most countries want. It is quite similar to the scrapped constitution, but reduced by some important symbolic aspects which should make it less controversial.

I don't agree with there being popular referendums in certain countries because the average citizen knows nothing of its contents. I read an article about a group of people setting up a stand on a busy shopping street trying to rally people against the EU with absurd, satirical suggestions of what the EU would change, such as banning church bells, and they received a lot of support and no one seemed to doubt the EU was capable of any of their ridiculous proposals.

The thing that bothers me a bit about the contract, and the EU in general, is it's orientation towards further easing the free market which would help larger, international companies and make competition much more difficult for smaller ones, and manipulates consumer behavior.




Zipacna

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#3 10 years ago

and makes it easier for big companies to just move to the east where they can find cheaper workers...


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emonkies

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17th July 2003

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#4 10 years ago

Seems like follows a traditional and time honored political tactic of repackaging and changing the wording so it looks different but is still essentially the same package. Only this time they seemed to have removed some of the obstacles so it will be harder to prevent the adoption of the Constitut..er, sorry...treaty.

For a example and reference please see USA's Patriot Act II.




Dreadnought[DK] VIP Member

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#5 10 years ago
Karst;4335169sets new majority rules so that someone idiot head of state like Kaczynski can't block something most countries want.

It also opens the door wide open for a decline in quality levels in countries with, say, high standards on environmental and social services. If everything is to be decided by a simple majority rule, then a country like Denmark can be forced to accpet lover levels simply because the majority of European countries can't adopt the same high standards.




Zipacna

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#6 10 years ago

Anlushac11;4335257Seems like follows a traditional and time honored political tactic of repackaging and changing the wording so it looks different but is still essentially the same package. Only this time they seemed to have removed some of the obstacles so it will be harder to prevent the adoption of the Constitut..er, sorry...treaty.

For a example and reference please see USA's Patriot Act II.

Yeah, some obstacles... like the Christian foundation-part so Turkey can join, too... to be honest, I think there have to be some big changes there before we should even consider the possibility of letting them in. The religious aspects... the thing with the Kurds...


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Karst

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#7 10 years ago
'Dreadnought[DK;4335334']It also opens the door wide open for a decline in quality levels in countries with, say, high standards on environmental and social services. If everything is to be decided by a simple majority rule, then a country like Denmark can be forced to accpet lover levels simply because the majority of European countries can't adopt the same high standards.

That's obviously the downside. I think the EU would actually be a good platform to set quality environmental and social standards, but they are shy about doing it.




Dreadnought[DK] VIP Member

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#8 10 years ago
Karst;4335375That's obviously the downside. I think the EU would actually be a good platform to set quality environmental and social standards, but they are shy about doing it.

You can't just set high standards EU-wide since many countries can't afford it. Some people can though and they can evry well be forced to slack on teh quality.




Karst

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#9 10 years ago
'Dreadnought[DK;4335397']You can't just set high standards EU-wide since many countries can't afford it. Some people can though and they can evry well be forced to slack on teh quality.

Well that's why it would effective in combination with economic cooperation; all members would, according to economic capability, work together to set up and enforce proper guidelines. Obviously there already are EU guidelines on environmental matters, but they don't seem to be nearly as important as the economic policies.




Relander

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8th April 2005

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#10 10 years ago

The Treaty of Lisbon is certainly an improvement as it makes the decision-making more efficient, less bureaucratic and more democratic. What's important thing to consider: if we truly want to compete in economy with rising economic power houses of the east (China & India) and economic might the USA, have strong position in international politics, security policies and crisis management and keep Russia in check, then the EU is quite necessary organ.

However I also think the EU should just concentrate on economy & common market, foreign policy & crisis management instead of micro-managering legislation which affects on many domestic, national issues of the member states. For example, Finland cannot lower the value-added tax on pharmaceutical drugs because it's against the EU regulations.

P.S. Greetings for all, especially for the old-timers such as Anlushac, Karst and Dread in this particular thread. It has been a long time since I last posted here but I guess the tiger can't get rid of its streaks/stripes.