U.S. builds a missile defense platform in Poland 27 replies

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#11 11 years ago
Pb2Au;3979170Yeah. It was called the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Except those were missiles designed to attack the U.S. These are missiles designed to shoot down other missiles, and we have every right to build such a defensive system to protect us from whatever country we want. I don't give a shit if it is for Iran or Russia, either way it is entirely OUR right to choose how we defend ourselves, provided that in the process we don't attack or intrude upon another country. As long as the system is either built on U.S. soil or the host country allows us to build then no one has any right to bitch about it.

If Russia has such a huge problem with it why don't they build their own? Or maybe they simply don't like that idea of not being able to attack or threaten the U.S. as easily as they might have been able to during the time of the Cold war? Russia shouldn't be worried about this system at all, unless they expect they'll make us have to use it against them sometime in the future...:rolleyes:




The Fat Controller

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7th September 2006

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#12 11 years ago

Afterburner;3979183Except those were missiles designed to attack the U.S. These are missiles designed to shoot down other missiles, and we have every right to build such a defensive system to protect us from whatever country we want. I don't give a shit if it is for Iran or Russia, either way it is entirely OUR right to choose how we defend ourselves, provided that in the process we don't attack or intrude upon another country. As long as the system is either built on U.S. soil or the host country allows us to build then no one has any right to bitch about it.

If Russia has such a huge problem with it why don't they build their own? Or maybe they simply don't like that idea of not being able to attack or threaten the U.S. as easily as they might have been able to during the time of the Cold war? Russia shouldn't be worried about this system at all, unless they expect they'll make us have to use it against them sometime in the future...:rolleyes:

If I put a threatening armed guard outside your house, would you not feel intruded upon? Planting a missile defense system near a country you're supposed to be allied with on the basis of a load of nonsense about Iran and North Korea is a blatant act of aggression. I'm not trying to defend Russia: countries are self-serving power structures, and favouritism is pretty dumb when it comes down to talking about weapons systems and so on.




Roaming East

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7th November 2005

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#13 11 years ago
The Fat Controller;3979519If I put a threatening armed guard outside your house, would you not feel intruded upon? Planting a missile defense system near a country you're supposed to be allied with on the basis of a load of nonsense about Iran and North Korea is a blatant act of aggression. I'm not trying to defend Russia: countries are self-serving power structures, and favouritism is pretty dumb when it comes down to talking about weapons systems and so on.

Poor example, a better one would be two houses that have paranoid neighbors living in them. One neighbor puts up a privacy fence so the other buys a gun, the first neighbor therefore buys a kevlar vest, provoking the other neighbor into buying armor piercing ammo etc ad nausem.

What is at stake is that it alters the MAD balance to the US' favor. Back in the day it was cool for everyone to have nukes cause there was no defense, if country A fired its load, country B would respond in knid and everybody lost. If one nation NOW has the ability to negate its own destruction in the event of a nuclear conflict, that renders everyone elses military strategy obsolete. Russia isn't pissed because the US is simply putting defensive missiles in a friendly host country, their pissed because their strategic military arm is about to become theoretically worthless.




Rich19

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14th August 2004

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#14 11 years ago

Roaming East;3979531Poor example, a better one would be two houses that have paranoid neighbors living in them. One neighbor puts up a privacy fence so the other buys a gun, the first neighbor therefore buys a kevlar vest, provoking the other neighbor into buying armor piercing ammo etc ad nausem.

What is at stake is that it alters the MAD balance to the US' favor. Back in the day it was cool for everyone to have nukes cause there was no defense, if country A fired its load, country B would respond in knid and everybody lost. If one nation NOW has the ability to negate its own destruction in the event of a nuclear conflict, that renders everyone elses military strategy obsolete. Russia isn't pissed because the US is simply putting defensive missiles in a friendly host country, their pissed because their strategic military arm is about to become theoretically worthless.

You forgot something. This missile defense basically means there is almost nothing to stop the most militant western country there is launching a bloody massive amount of nukes at anything they want.




Huffardo

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29th November 2003

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#15 11 years ago

You have a very good point there. I wouldn't blame Putin too much if he decided to take out those two crazy Polish leaders before the shield is finished. They shouldn't expect any help from the rest of Europe either after all their sabotage of the EU and obviously intentional trouble they have caused with Russia, but I hope the Polish people will kick them out without a fight, they shouldn't have to suffer for the actions of their weird leaders even though they were misguided enough to elect them.




Roaming East

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#16 11 years ago
Rich19;3980295You forgot something. This missile defense basically means there is almost nothing to stop the most militant western country there is launching a bloody massive amount of nukes at anything they want.

Except for the Russias. nuclear arsenal. Primary russian ICBM the SS19 carries 6 warheads. the missle defense shield would be overwhelmed in any event of a retalitory strike so is for all intents and purposes, designed to intercept rogue threats. The shield hasnt even been proven to be able to counter the standard anti-missile countermeasures the SS19's bring to the table so to say that the system is designed to cock-block the Russians nuclear strike ability is bullshiat.

Im not even going to go into sea launched weapons. the entire missile defense grid is based around stopping a limited number of warheads from hitting a limited number of areas. The big nuclear powers could overwhelm the shield at a whim so this means the only people that its going to stop are the guys with less than half a dozen icbms to launch. i.e Iran




The Fat Controller

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#17 11 years ago

If that. The technology is far from proven. There was an article in NewScientist recently which I read, which basically dissed the capabilities of such a system. The beginning of it is here, but you have to subscribe to read the rest online :( Comment: Bluffing over anti-missile defence? - opinion - 29 September 2007 - New Scientist




Admiral Donutz VIP Member

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9th December 2003

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#18 11 years ago

masked_marsoe;3978216The Kaczyński twins scare me.

The missile base in Poland is a completely unnecessary provocation against Russia. There's a difference between pro-active defence and deliberate aggravation.

Missiles coming from Iran would fly over Turkey (westwards), or Pakistan (eastwards). If the intention was to stop missiles from Iran, either country would be willing to accept bases there. Russia could have been placated by using its radar bases in the Caucasus - which would have sent a clear message to Iran from the US and one of Iran's 'friends' Russia, as well as improving relations with Russia.[/quote]

[quote=Anlushac11;3978738]I dont think putting missiles in Poland was one of GW's better ideas. In fact I put this down as another of his historic fusterclucks.

The US should have accepted Putins offer of a existing missile base in southern Russia. The US gas offered Russia the interceptor technology so why not set it up and have it jointly manned?

At the minimum he should have waited more than 24 hours to refuse Putins offer if only out of respect and politeness.

IMHO the interceptors are too far north to affect Iran but are positioned well to defend south and east.

I can see why Russia feels provocated.

My thoughts exactly.

They probably never need the missile shield to begin with and even then it could be placed in other locations. The current design just needlessly provokes people. It's quite bad somebody conjured this up, that somebody (Kaczyński twins) happen to eagerly assist them is even worse.




masked_marsoe VIP Member

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#19 11 years ago

Well, PiS has just lost its parliamentary majority (election on 21st), and one of the Kaczyński twins is out of power.

The new government will be formed by a PO/PSL (Civic Platform/Polish People's Party) coalition, and its possible given their attitudes to Polish forces in Iraq and Afghanistan that the government will no longer support the missile shield plan.




Junk angel

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#20 11 years ago

Actually it's not only missile defense in poland, but a Radar in the CZ as well.

It's actually been here on discussion for a few months now, groups opposing it, mainly the communists, others for it etc.

There's been some claims about both our government and the US one lying about what everything the radar will bring, it's effects, or the actual size and personal of the accompanying base.

Right now the discussion is weather there should be a referendum about the radar or not.

And as to my own personal view, I say build it. In part just to give the russians a clear view, that the mospact, and the defacto moscow rule ended in 89.