Ukraine's way is to the east again? 17 replies

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Relander

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#1 11 years ago

BBC News | Europe [SIZE="4"]Key ministers sacked in Ukraine[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]Ukraine's parliament has dismissed the foreign and interior ministers - key allies of President Viktor Yushchenko.[/SIZE]

Foreign Minister Borys Tarasiuk has been one of the country's most pro-Western officials.

Interior Minister Yuriy Lutsenko was also a key figure during the liberal "Orange Revolution" in 2004 that swept Mr Yushchenko to power.

The sackings come amid growing tensions between Mr Yushchenko and pro-Russian Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych.

The president has said he will challenge the sacking of Mr Tarasiuk in Ukraine's Constitutional Court.

Under Ukraine's constitution, Mr Yushchenko is entitled to appoint the foreign minister.

The constitutional changes that came into effect earlier this year strengthened the prime minister's power and weakened those of the president.

The arrangement - which many experts in Ukraine say contains a number of contradictions - was billed as an effort to stabilise the country after the bitterly fought presidential polls in 2004.

But instead it has triggered a political tug-of-war for influence between Mr Yushchenko and Mr Yanukovych.

At the Orange Revolution in 2004, Viktor Yushchenko declared that he will bring Ukraine closer ties to western Europe and eventually get the country into Nato & EU so parliament's decision was a heavy blow for the president.

If ministers of interior & foreign affairs are eventually replaced by allies of Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, Yushchenko's arch-enemy, will Ukraine once again become Russia's little brother? Will the achievements of Orange Revolution go to waste and democratic reforms get swept under the carpet?




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#2 11 years ago

The Orange Revolution was a nice gesture, but the way I see it it only transferred corruption from one government to the next. Maybe the former Soviet Nations needs a bit more time before they are ready for democracy as we understand it.




Nesh_reanimator

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#3 11 years ago

Mmmm,... Kiev is the capital of Ukraine, and I live here. BTW, little appartment in Kiev cost about 300 000 $. Third world countyr, yes?

And one more thing. Perhaps, my English was too bad , perhaps, I didn`t truly expleined what I meaned, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps... but I leave here, and I am SURE you, that MOOOOORE than 70% of population of Ukraine ARE FED UP of ELECTIONS, are FED UP FROM USHENKO, and so one... If some one REALY cares about situation in Ukraine, I can explain IT. If not, belive my, in mine 19th i have many things to do in my "third world country".

P.S: As I said one, or, perhaps, two years befor, so-called "Orange coalition" have been colappsed!

P.P.S: As I said =) BEFORE, Su-34 are already in serial production, as well as Mi-28. ;)

Maybe the former Soviet Nations needs a bit more time before they are ready for democracy as we understand it.

Acctualy, we don`t need such democracy, whe the entire countyr colapse, thanks too ****** *** ***** ********.




MrFancypants Forum Admin

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#4 11 years ago

Nesh_reanimator;3399900Mmmm,... Kiev is the capital of Ukraine, and I live here. BTW, little appartment in Kiev cost about 300 000 $. Third world countyr, yes?

And one more thing. Perhaps, my English was too bad , perhaps, I didn`t truly expleined what I meaned, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps... but I leave here, and I am SURE you, that MOOOOORE than 70% of population of Ukraine ARE FED UP of ELECTIONS, are FED UP FROM USHENKO, and so one... If some one REALY cares about situation in Ukraine, I can explain IT. If not, belive my, in mine 19th i have many things to do in my "third world country".

P.S: As I said one, or, perhaps, two years befor, so-called "Orange coalition" have been colappsed!

P.P.S: As I said =) BEFORE, Su-34 are already in serial production, as well as Mi-28. ;)

Acctualy, we don`t need such democracy, whe the entire countyr colapse, thanks too ****** *** ***** ********.

Noone claimed that the Ukraine is a thirld-world country in this thread, so calm down. And wether or not the Su-34 is already in production also doesn't seem to be connected to this topic :)




Nesh_reanimator

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#5 11 years ago

At the Orange Revolution in 2004, Viktor Yushchenko declared that he will bring Ukraine closer ties to western Europe and eventually get the country into Nato & EU so parliament's decision was a heavy blow for the president.

If ministers of interior & foreign affairs are eventually replaced by allies of Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych, Yushchenko's arch-enemy, will Ukraine once again become Russia's little brother? Will the achievements of Orange Revolution go to waste and democratic reforms get swept under the carpet?

Do you realy think, that the more some country closer too USA, the more "democratic" it is? Orange revolution was only a PR action to achive govermental power. Ushenko have lost this power becouse: 1. only 12% of population of Ukraine want to enter NATO. 2. thank`s to his stupid politic, country for already 2 years is close to civil war. 3. 48% of population are russian speaking. 4. 22% of population are russians. 5. south-east part of Ukraine are ABSOLUTELY pro-Russian.

BTW, Russian Black-Sea Navy is based in Ukraine, in Cremea, where 97% of population are russian. Imagine, what could happen, if Ukarine will enter NATO. Personaly I don`t need any civil war, as well as any other inhabitant of this country, I`m sure.




Relander

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#6 11 years ago
Nesh_reanimatorDo you realy think, that the more some country closer too USA, the more "democratic" it is?

Who talked anything about the USA? EU was in my mind. Besides, the USA is more democratic country than Russia where media is mostly controlled by Kremlin, there are political murders and the opposition is weak & mostly disorganized. Joining EU is in Ukraine's political and especially economic interests at long period.

Orange revolution was only a PR action to achive govermental power.

So there were no governmental power under pro-Russian administration?

2. thank`s to his stupid politic, country for already 2 years is close to civil war.

Just because country is divided into two political camps, doesn't mean there's going to be civil war (is the USA in the footsteps of civil war?). It isn't in anyone's interests. Sure there would be riots but that isn't new.

BTW, Russian Black-Sea Navy is based in Ukraine, in Cremea, where 97% of population are russian. Imagine, what could happen, if Ukarine will enter NATO.

Russia would raise the price of natural gas for Ukraine and the relations would become icy. Though Ukraine entering Nato doesn't directly mean rebasing of Russian Black-Sea fleet.




Nesh_reanimator

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#7 11 years ago
Russia would raise the price of natural gas for Ukraine and the relations would become icy. Though Ukraine entering Nato doesn't directly mean rebasing of Russian Black-Sea fleet.

After THREE crisises between Russia and Ukraine, Russia indeed raise the price of natural gas. And why should Ukraine buy gas in three times cheaper, than another European countrys? Even now the cost of russian gas for Ukraine is much more cheaper than for other European countrys (173$)

Just because country is divided into two political camps, doesn't mean there's going to be civil war (is the USA in the footsteps of civil war?). It isn't in anyone's interests. Sure there would be riots but that isn't new.

USA is divided by political views. Ukraine is divided by geographicaly, geopoliticaly. If you want, threre are two "nations" in one nation, with different history, different views on this history, different heroes and anti-herous, ASOLUTELY different political vews. One half I can name pro-russia, another - pro-european. Ushenko with his revolution has only increase such bad situation. You saw only Kiev on TV, with people saying "We voted for Ushenko", while, I think, you never saw Donetsk , wich people said "They steel our victory!".

So there were no governmental power under pro-Russian administration?

My English is not very good. I want to say "Ushenko ...to achive govermental power".




emonkies

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#8 11 years ago

By chance is the division in the Ukraine possibly related to the area in the Ukraine which before WW2 was in Polish hands?

IIRC the area of western Ukraine has been claimed by both sides and changed hands several times in prior conflicts over hundereds of years.

I think it was part of Czarist Russian then after WW1 that area was given to Poland and in 1941 when Soviets invaded Poland they reclaimed that territory.




Nesh_reanimator

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#9 11 years ago

The more you travel on west of Ukraine, the more there are nationalistic, even nazys anti-russian view. the more you travel on eastern part of Ukraine, the more there are ANTI-WESTERN-UKRAINIAN view. For example, where did you see country, where speaking another language is a crime? South-Eastern Ukraine was, in majority, inhabit by russians, becouse this territory is rich on coal and other mineral resources. Western Part of Ukraine was almost all it`s history under control of Rich Pospolita (Poland), Austria, ext.

For example, many people in western Ukraine think, that soldiers of SS "Galichina", formed from Ukrainians were heros of country, while on the other part of Ukraine people can hit for such words.

I think it was part of Czarist Russian then after WW1 that area was given to Poland and in 1941 when Soviets invaded Poland they reclaimed that territory.

Yes. But it was just a small part of western Ukraine, called nowadays "Zakarpat`ye".




Mr.Panzerschrek

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#10 11 years ago

Ukraines govt sux, lots of corrupt ppl in it :(




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