west/east culture difference - view of death in religion 26 replies

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#21 12 years ago

Ignore my poke at religion? No worries there, religion does a fine enough job of poking itself with out my help. As for living for ever, with a naive perception, sure it would be fun, but from a logical point of view it would be torturous. For instance, those regrets you mentioned, those lost chances. How are you suppose to ask the girl you didn’t? How are you suppose to do something in reality, involving other living people, over again, in death? That paradox doesn’t matter though, right, this is magical Disney-like heaven, so anything can happen. Even if it involves other people, who aren’t dead yet. Yeah sure, no regrets... Except for maybe those few who go; "How the fuck did I die in the first place...?" Then there’s love, if you’re lucky, you can get 75 years of it, and that’s for the very, very lucky. After that, its almost impossible. Love is fleeting, it’s not forever. People tire of one another, some not as quickly as others. As for nothing ever really ending. That’s your own "limited" individual perspective, we all have one, and those limited perspectives are not facts of the world. When I drive my car from A-B ends, it does indeed end. I assure you. Especially when B is say, a scrap yard. What is an undeniable effect in this world, is nothing lasts forever. Sooner or later everything has it’s 'end', even planets and stars. As we sit here on this forum, every year, the planets shift their rotations if only an iota. Hell the moon is even getting further and further away as time goes on. As for your assumptions that death is the end if you don’t believe in a god, again those are nothing more then your own presumptions, not facts. For example, many atheists believe life can be compared to a VCR on record, and that from birth too death, you gather material for use in a never ending dream/movie of your own invention. Not a heaven or hell mind you, but a dream like state. The belief goes that once your mortal body dies, time dies for you as well and your video so to speak will consist of how well you did, or didn’t, live. All the while minus any gods or devils. You should really spare us broad sweeping facts about beliefs that you do not partake in. Its understandable that you would defend your own belief and follow it, but too assume you know other, or all beliefs just as well, well that’s as asinine as it gets. In fact doing so, is the equivalent of a prostitute giving a lecture on integrity and class.




Chemix2

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#22 12 years ago

Nothing ever ends; for matter and energy cannot be destroyed, and history is a self perpetuating repetition of similar and related events. World War 1 hasn't ended, it's simply rotated it's "bad guys" to different nations over the years throughout the "wars" and "peace times". Your example of the car trip doesn't precisely work, the car isn't making the journey, you are, the car is simply an expedient vehicle to make it to another part of your journey, which ultimately will span your entire life, and possibly beyond that, despite all the times we think that our journeys have ended, our "ends" have simply rest stops on the way. Stars eventually die, but are reborn as dwarfs or black holes, the veritable angels and demons of the afterlife of a star. Planets that "die" become fuel to stars, or disperse into nebula like clouds until gravity pulls them back slowly into a rough spherical shape.

Nothing ever ends; is a fact of the physical world, not a perspective, anyone can observe a fact.

As towards the inability for those chances and regrets to be corrected; given infinite time, new chances arise, things change, new variables are introduced, and thus living never gets quite as boring as you'd think it would and almost all regrets can be undone in time.

As towards your ASSumptions, as you so kindly pointed out, you are not every atheist either, how "many" do you know believe in this VCR? Because I've heard of it perhaps 3 times, and yet have many times been met with the idea that simply nothing happens, you cease to exist. And if there is nothing immaterial in this world then the dream state will stop eventually as the brain looses remaining function, because there is nothing else to run such a state is there?

Don't call down from your highly evolved horse with an ass so large and tall that it's very anus is like a gateway to hell, and who's neck and head open to reveal a grand hall of a throat, when you have done the same if not worse and continue to do so. A murderer may prevent a murder, but only if he is not committing one while stopping another.




Junk angel

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#23 12 years ago
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The thing here is more like the fact, that you don't know the moment you cease to exist, in a way, you are locked, unable to move, you virtually cease to exist, but your last thoughts are there frozen.




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#24 12 years ago
Chemix2;3856176Nothing ever ends; for matter and energy cannot be destroyed, and history is a self perpetuating repetition of similar and related events. Ect. Ect.[/quote]

You’ve mistaken change for infinity. A common mistake.

Chemix2;3856176Nothing ever ends; is a fact of the physical world, not a perspective, anyone can observe a fact.[/quote]

Keep telling yourself that, and perhaps it will become the truth.

Chemix2;3856176As towards your ASSumptions, as you so kindly pointed out, you are not every atheist either, how "many" do you know believe in this VCR? Because I've heard of it perhaps 3 times, and yet have many times been met with the idea that simply nothing happens, you cease to exist. .

I know my own beliefs, and I know those of many other atheists. The fact you‘ve heard of that three times, shows quite a bit on how in the dark you are about atheists. I guess for you athiests is just one thing, the absence of gods. Must be nice to have such broad sweeping generalized views, where everyone fits into neat little categories. For you to talk as if you were an atheist, knowing so well what they do or do not believe, well that’s down right humorous. It's tantamount to me telling you what you do or do not believe. How would you like that? Overall your attempt it like listening to tennis pro narrative a UFC fight on spike tv. They have no idea what the hell they’re talking about, yet they try, and try due to the light being on them. Where's your light? Peers? [quote=Chemix2;3856176]And if there is nothing immaterial in this world then the dream state will stop eventually as the brain looses remaining function, because there is nothing else to run such a state is there? Why not put that question to your heaven and god. Or is this selective logic again? [quote=Chemix2;3856176]Don't call down from your highly evolved horse with an ass so large and tall that it's very anus is like a gateway to hell, and who's neck and head open to reveal a grand hall of a throat, when you have done the same if not worse and continue to do so. A murderer may prevent a murder, but only if he is not committing one while stopping another. A pitiful attempt at turning the pub into the melee. There is a big difference between making a comparison, and making a direct inflammatory attack. Please go and goad someone else into your pathetic pissing contest. I’m here for discussion, not derogatory personal attacks. Perhaps though, your overly insulting act was an attempted transference to me of the degradation which you bare in yourself. If so, you have my sympathies.




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#25 12 years ago

Heaven and God are immaterial, atheism typically defines the world as only material, and as towards how much I know versus you, I am a former atheist, who knows many atheists, and with the exception of 2 online conversations and 1 real life conversation, I've never heard any atheist talk about this belief, though I recall many agnostics talking about such a thing. You act as if atheism is a community, almost in a religious sense. You know little more than I do about the beliefs of the some odd 2 billion atheists or so on this planet.

You have repeatedly insulted religion, religious people, the concept of God, and now you come to me call me derogatory, after comparing me to a prostitute lecturing people on class. You've goaded, and been returned your goad without the silver lining and with a good deal more whit. Look at yourself in the mirror, and see the priest stare you back, you are as faithful as any pompous pious christian you have ever had the displeasure of meeting and surely as self righteous.




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#26 12 years ago
You know little more than I do about the beliefs of the some odd 2 billion atheists or so on this planet.

Awfully presumptuous to attest what I know, or what anyone else knows. Don’t ya think? Think ego.

Now you come to me call me derogatory, after comparing me to a prostitute lecturing people on class.

I compared your position on atheism (not you yourself, but your stance) to that of a situation as equally ridiculous, the one I used. It’s rather fitting as I‘ve been told. You however, did not. Rather you sought too hijack this thread into your own flaming grounds using no comparisons, only direct insults and bashings. San those sacred values..

You've goaded, and been returned your goad without the silver lining and with a good deal more whit.

Someone thinks highly of themselves don’t they. Rudeness and insulting acts such as you’ve just demonstrated, are not wit, that whole tantrum was nothing more then a weak imitation of it.

Look at yourself in the mirror, and see the priest stare you back, you are as faithful as any pompous pious christian you have ever had the displeasure of meeting and surely as self righteous.

Still pretending this is melee again? How about I leave you to your verbal bashing party, you can bask in this personal edification all ya like, and I can get back to this threads original intention. Oh but hey, if you think we genuinely care, let us know when you’re done. Why death denying wraithcat? Fear, fear of the unknown. Selfishness, too live forever. Everyone secretly believes that they will live forever, especially when they are young. Some people just never grow out of it, and some people get information reinforcing those fanciful sentiments from primitive dogmas.

wraithcat;3856378The thing here is more like the fact, that you don't know the moment you cease to exist, in a way, you are locked, unable to move, you virtually cease to exist, but your last thoughts are there frozen.

Exactly.




Covin Narcissus

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#27 12 years ago

[SIZE="1"]There's some eastern religion (can't be bothered to remember which one) that believes that there is a big god, who is dreaming everything. We are all just apart of this dream and when he wakes the world will end. So, do you think that there's a god dreaming of all of us, or do you think that we're all dreaming of the gods? Even worse, do you think this is all a just a dream?[/SIZE]