What if the USA and Canada didn't enter WWII? 172 replies

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Tipsy

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21st May 2004

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#1 14 years ago

By 'entering,' I mean, no economic support aswell (i.e. lend lease)

Suppose that the USA continued it's oil trade to Japan and made no changes based on the war, and Canada hadn't entered it before the USA did.

During the war, several defenses were built on the coastlines of the US (Including Alaska) and Canada...The two nations are on a relatively peaceful continent surrounded by two bodies of water.

Being prepared for attack (unlike pearl harbor), I don't see how the Axis powers would have ever landed on the Americas. If security and defense was beefed up all over the coastlines of North, South, and Central America, they never would've landed. The Germans couldn't even land on England and look how close they were to Germany. A normandy beach-style invasion would've been impossible as well, without a staging point like England which was used by Canadians, French, Americans, and British soldiers on june 6th.

I am asking this because I consider myself a modern-day isolationist American. These days, I honestly couldn't care less whether the people on the largest landmasses of the earth got nuked to bits or maintained peace. I don't see any reason why people in the Americas need to meddle in affairs in Europe, Africa, and Asia. Clearly, every problem that was brought to the Americas was brought by the people to the east (Spain, Britain, Russia, France) and the colonization would've gone further had it not been for the Monroe Doctrine in the mid-1850's, not permitting European powers to colonize on the Americas.

Like Charles Lindbergh said of the USA; what more could a nation ever ask for with borders stretching from the atlantic to the pacific, and to the north and south of us, friendly neighbors?

I think that the Axis powers would never have been able to conquer the Americas. I don't see any possible way they would've done it. What do you guys think?




Hfx-Rebel VIP Member

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#2 14 years ago

i would agree...(even tho i don't believe hitler had plans for the americas, but, whose to say where he wouldv'e stopped if he hadn't of been defeated) and look at the reasons for going to war- canada, because of its close ties to the monarchy u.s. because a cruise ship (if memory serves me right) was sank by a german u-boat EDIT: if i'm wrong about the reasons for entering the war, correct me...its been a long time since i've cracked a history book.




Jeff Über Admin

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#3 14 years ago
TipsyBy 'entering,' I mean, no economic support aswell (i.e. lend lease) Suppose that the USA continued it's oil trade to Japan and made no changes based on the war, and Canada hadn't entered it before the USA did. During the war, several defenses were built on the coastlines of the US (Including Alaska) and Canada...The two nations are on a relatively peaceful continent surrounded by two bodies of water.

Japan wanted the threat in the pacific eliminated, so they attacked our fleet so their transport ships went untouched.

Being prepared for attack (unlike pearl harbor), I don't see how the Axis powers would have ever landed on the Americas. If security and defense was beefed up all over the coastlines of North, South, and Central America, they never would've landed. The Germans couldn't even land on England and look how close they were to Germany. A normandy beach-style invasion would've been impossible as well, without a staging point like England which was used by Canadians, French, Americans, and British soldiers on june 6th.

But germans did land on american soil. Down in Flordia, they came via a submarine to sabatoge our factories and do as much damage as possible before getting caught. However they were caught and quickly executed. Japan used balloon bombs to float over to the west coast and harass us. However, those did hardly any damage. The Germans could have easlily began an invasion of the UK, but they would have suffered too many losses for it to be worth it. Hitler also wanted to pound them into submission.

I am asking this because I consider myself a modern-day isolationist American. These days, I honestly couldn't care less whether the people on the largest landmasses of the earth got nuked to bits or maintained peace. I don't see any reason why people in the Americas need to meddle in affairs in Europe, Africa, and Asia. Clearly, every problem that was brought to the Americas was brought by the people to the east (Spain, Britain, Russia, France) and the colonization would've gone further had it not been for the Monroe Doctrine in the mid-1850's, not permitting European powers to colonize on the Americas.

Ah, but see, the US is a melting pot of each of these cultures. If you origionally come from any other country, you may have family in one of those other countries, or you still retain loyality for the nation you heritage first began in. Thus, you would want to know what is happening in these countries and want to help if possible. The US isn't perfect, we have stirred up a hornets nest from time to time in many of these countries, and that's why there are nations that have contempt for us and our way of life. We're looked at as arrogant pigs who only care about themselves and not the well being of the world. With the leaps and bounds in technologies, it made the world a much smaller place. Now instead of being across a vast ocean, we're merely across 'the pond' as the Brits like to reference the Atlantic Ocean as. The isolationist attitude really has it's merit, but in my opinion is a rather obsolete one. You're entitled to your views of course, but I'm just sharing mine.


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Octovon

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#4 14 years ago

They would have never invaded Canada or the US. Germany couldn't even invade England, they would have been destroyed at sea by the British fleet from Scapa Flow or by the RAF Bomber Command. It would have been stupid to invade England as all Allied armies were based in England, the British Army, the Canadian Army, the remaining forces of the conquered countries (France, Poland, Belgium, etc.), not to mention the island defense system.

But germans did land on american soil. Down in Flordia, they came via a submarine to sabatoge our factories and do as much damage as possible before getting caught. However they were caught and quickly executed. Japan used balloon bombs to float over to the west coast and harass us. However, those did hardly any damage. The Germans could have easlily began an invasion of the UK, but they would have suffered too many losses for it to be worth it. Hitler also wanted to pound them into submission.

Germans also landed men from submarine on the Canadian coasts as well but were usually picked up soon after their landing (usually spotted from the highway or by their scent, accent, clothes, the way they acted). They weren't executed here in Canada, but thrown into POW camps in Ontario and the Western Provinces. Japan attacked Canada and the US with balloon bombs, but if I can recall correctly, a Japanese submarine shelled a lighthouse outside Vancouver, causing little to no damage. The worst the Japanese could do was invade the Aleutians, but they left there early.

Ah, but see, the US is a melting pot of each of these cultures. If you origionally come from any other country, you may have family in one of those other countries, or you still retain loyality for the nation you heritage first began in. Thus, you would want to know what is happening in these countries and want to help if possible.

As America is the 'melting pot' of foreign cultures, every immigrant being 'Americanized' or assimilated into the dominate American culture, Canada prides itself on being a mosaic of cultures. Canada does not assimilate its immigrants into becoming Canadian, but allowing these immigrants to hold onto many of their traditional roots and nationality. This is how Canada and the US are different, our cultures are different, though with some similarities.

Now and in the future, there is no need to invade large land masses such as the US and Canada. Ballistic nuclear weapons have replaced the massive invasion forces needed to invade/occupy an area as large as Canada or the US. An invasion and occupation of Canada or the US would be a logistical nightmare.




WiseBobo

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#5 14 years ago

Germany would of had the world's elite army by then. We are talking about Jet Fighters and V2 Rockets; not to mention most likely an Atom Bomb of some sort. Not to mention the Sturmgewehr-44, something that changed the face of war as we know it, yet too little too late for the Germans. If the United States does not enter the war, then everyone would be sprechen se deustch, and all be wearing Swastikas.




Octovon

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#6 14 years ago
If the United States does not enter the war, then everyone would be sprechen se deustch, and all be wearing Swastikas.

I disagree, Germany cold not defeat the British in the Battle of Britain, and thus wouldn't be able to hold out forever. The failure at Dieppe would have led to further attempts at invasion. The V2, Stg-44 and jet fighters were all repsonses to Allied success, without the Americans, its possible to say that these innovations may not have come to fruition. Eventually the British, Canadians and possibly a few other Allied nations would have succeded in establishing a Western front. Russia would have continued on the same I believe, receiving many casualties, but eventually reversing the Germans on their asses. The war would have ended later, and we would have retained our respected languages. If America did not enter such a war, they may not have become the superpower they came to be. Britain and Canada (who after WWII had the 3rd largest navy) would have ruled the seas and possibly skies. All American innovation and progress after WWII was due to captured German technologies including rockets, jets, tanks, etc. Other technologies were result of American response to enemy advantages.




Smitty025

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#7 14 years ago

What about Japan? Nobody would be fighting them and they would control all of Asia eventually. I think that without the help of the US the German Atlantic Wall couldnt have been breached therefore stopping many attacks.




Octovon

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#8 14 years ago
What about Japan? Nobody would be fighting them and they would control all of Asia eventually. I think that without the help of the US the German Atlantic Wall couldnt have been breached therefore stopping many attacks.

Japan would have realised its faults and joined with the Allied just like they did in WWI. The German Atlantic Wall was impressive, but not impregnable. Small forces of UK special forces mounted many raids on the French coast early on in the war. A large invasion force could have just as easily invaded the Western coast of France or invade from the Vichy south from Marseille.




WiseBobo

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#9 14 years ago
OctovonI disagree, Germany cold not defeat the British in the Battle of Britain, and thus wouldn't be able to hold out forever. The failure at Dieppe would have led to further attempts at invasion. The V2, Stg-44 and jet fighters were all repsonses to Allied success, without the Americans, its possible to say that these innovations may not have come to fruition. Eventually the British, Canadians and possibly a few other Allied nations would have succeded in establishing a Western front. Russia would have continued on the same I believe, receiving many casualties, but eventually reversing the Germans on their asses. The war would have ended later, and we would have retained our respected languages. If America did not enter such a war, they may not have become the superpower they came to be. Britain and Canada (who after WWII had the 3rd largest navy) would have ruled the seas and possibly skies. All American innovation and progress after WWII was due to captured German technologies including rockets, jets, tanks, etc. Other technologies were result of American response to enemy advantages.

The Stg-44 was developed on the eastern front, NOT THE WESTERN. As was the Karabiner 43. Without United States involvement, Operation Overlord never comes to be, and Rommel with his Afrika Corps can punish the British Armoured Divisions and take virtually all of the Middle-East as well. Because now Germany does not have to deal with a two-front war, they can successfully beat back Russia with their superior army. Canada. Bah. Don't get me started on Canada. I don't see how they had any major impacts on the war. Now, I understand you are a Canuck, and you must defend your country with your honor, however; 20 Million Russians > 39,000 Canadians. And by this I do not mean that Canadian did not contribute at all, but nowhere near the level as the United States, Britain, and the Soviet Union did.




Octovon

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#10 14 years ago

Canada. Bah. Don't get me started on Canada. I don't see how they had any major impacts on the war. Now, I understand you are a Canuck, and you must defend your country with your honor, however;

20 Million Russians > 39,000 Canadians.

And by this I do not mean that Canadian did not contribute at all, but nowhere near the level as the United States, Britain, and the Soviet Union did.

You obiously do not know about the Royal Canadian Armed Forces during WWII. By the end of the War, Canada had a land army of 600,000+, the third largest navy on the planet (after the US and Britain respectively) and a modern and lethal air force consisting of multiple fighter and bomber squadrons, reconnaissance and naval aircraft, including an aircraft carrier. Canada was essential to the entire Battle of the Atlantic just so you know, who shipped the most supplies to Britain and Russia? Canadian merchant vessels. Canada constructed hundreds of corvettes, frigates, and destroyers to beat back the German U-boats. Out of 600,000 soldiers, 39,00 was the casualties of the war, much less than our WWI casualties of 60,000. Over 20,000+ men invaded Normandy on D-Day on Juno Beach, they were the quickest to achieve their objectives and attacked the second most defended beach on the German Atlantic Wall. Canadian soldiers fought at Ortona and broke the German lines in Italy so that Allied armies could break through the Hitler line.

Before you comment on Canada's role in WWII, do your research.