Tech is where you'll find me..
13th April 2005
Well, I just finshed watching a short film made by members of a Swedish political party that takes its platform based on a pro-piracy idealism. The name of the film is called "Steal This Film", Google it, I encourage you to watch it (I don't give it a direct link for fear of breaking forum rules).
After watching the film, I came away with a both a strong distaste for 'pirates' and piracy in general. The arguments that they made for piracy didn't seem entirely coherent. And I was disgusted to see that they were interviewing people on the street, and these people were openly talking about what they like to download through certian piracy websites and programs (keep in mind that these people are in Sweeden, so there's not to much that can be done)(And I'm not trying to Imply that the people of Sweeden are pirates).
So after watching it, from what I understand, these people would like everyone to pirate everything. But the thought that occurs to me, if everyone did pirate everything they use on their computers, there would be nothing to pirate.
So what I'd like to know the most- What are the pro-piracy arguments? Geninuely, I'd like to know what they are. And it really is okay if you do believe in piracy, I completely respect your opinion, and I'd like to debate it.
I must request that there be no links or names of websites and programs that are used for piracy purposes. I'd like to stay on the corect side of the line of the forum rules, and not get the thread closed or deleted.
To the mods/admins- I mean this to be a constuctive discousion of piracy, and don't intend it to be a discousion of how to pirate copyrighted material. Please do closely monitor the thread, but I request that it not be closed. ~marvinmatthew
marvinmatthew;3371953 So what I'd like to know the most- What are the pro-piracy arguments? Geninuely, I'd like to know what they are.
Thievery is all it is, and it isn’t a new concept. Some people love to get something, for nothing. Piracy is the equivalent of hiring someone to do some work, then not paying them for the work they did. It’s just preemptive and devoid of any personal interaction. There is no logical argument for piracy. Consumers paying for media, software, music or anything else, is what promotes making more of it. If the content is produced and no income is generated from it‘s sale or use, what’s the point of even creating it? In fact, piracy is a major contributing factor to the prices of many things. If people paid for the pirated products they use, prices would inherently drop for us all, as that loss would no longer transfer to the end consumer MSRP, yet not everyone wants to do that. Fast and free is the preferred way for everyone. Piracy is leading us all into a dark future where nearly all software will only function with an internet connection, meaning you won’t be able to use much of anything unless you have a connection to a main server for authentication purposes. This is already apparent in such games as Half-Life2, where even single player requires constant internet check-ups.
I pretend to do stuff.
16th January 2004
I disagree on that, Sedistix. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: piracy is not stealing. You do not give the company any direct damage. I'm a "pirate", so to speak. I download. However, I only do this for games/movies/music which otherwise I would not have played or seen. If I like it, it's likely I'll buy the dvd/cd/game afterwards either way.
Also, you do not "damage" a company, you do not steal from them. If anything, you deprive them of profit. It's stealing once you sell the game to someone else after downloading it yourself, or if you shoplift it from some mall. However, in an a-physical form, it is simply not theft, in my eyes.
As for the arguments I have for "pirating": Games: Demo's can be very misleading in what the game is like. You download the demo, play it and like it. You go and buy the game, and it appears the game wasn't all as fun as the demo set it up to be. Bye bye money. I simply cannot afford to let that happen. I'm in college, I need my money. I cannot afford to blow €70,- on a game which I might like. If I know I like the game, it's a different story. It's a sort of try-before-you-buy thing.
CDs: I always got stiffed with this in the past. A group makes two or three good songs, puts them on a CD, and fills it up with utter crap for the rest. This pisses me off to a great extent. I now just choose to download those two or three good songs, instead of paying €20 for a CD.
Movies: Similar to games, the previews are just not good to base your opinion on. Neither are the reviews, because you didn't make them. A theater ticket is not that hyper expensive, but it's still €16. That's two or three hours work.
It just boils down to this: I'm a college student. I have little money available for entertainment. I cannot afford to blow money on bad stuff. Hence a try-before-I-buy thing.
I wonder if some men out there in this world, can try out hookers, before they buy em? Ya know, give em a full run from top to bottom. Perhaps people can also take a new car off the lot with nothing down, and use it for as long as they want, until there conscious tells them to buy it. Again, totally free, just to be sure that they want to buy it. Maybe I can have a double cheeseburger or two for free, to be sure they're good and worthy of buying? Do you see where I am going with this? Now just because something exists as sound in speakers or as images on a screen, should it be any different? If 100,000 people pirate a $20 album CD from whoever, how is that not damaging to them? The logic you described earlier, sounds like nothing more then justification. You may have explained your reasons behind that logic, but it certainly doesn’t excuse it. To take anything that exists to be sold, with out paying for it, whatever it is, is plain old stealing no matter how you cut it or justify it.
If everyone was allowed to try before they buy, then what would be the point in buying to begin with.
I know of several friends and associates who say the same thing chaos, they all say “try-before-I-buy” but in all the time I’ve known them, they’ve never bought the games, movies, or music CD’s they downloaded. Why? Because they already have them.
In every case, I believe it is wrong.
Heaven's gonna burn your eyes
16th April 2005
There are Pirate Parties in several countries, America included, but Sweden's is the oldest and most developed, winning more than 34,000 votes in the 2006 election (making it the 10th largest party), and helping to change the copyright policies of several Swedish parties.
US Pirate Party The basic idea of the Pirate Party is simple - the government should encourage, rather than smother, creativity and freedom. Copyrights are now stretching into the hundreds of years, and fair use is under constant attack by attorneys who exploit the vagueness of the law. Creativity has come to a standstill in this country for those who wish to work within, and benefit from, the confines of the law. Whereas 50 years ago there was no great uproar at creative "pirating" of works without the permission of the original artist (Mickey Mouse was made as a parody, but Disney prosecutes all similar parodies of their Mickey Mouse symbol), similar legitimate creative derivative works are now smothered by the excessive terms, restrictions and punishments of our copyright system. But it is not just Copyrights that need reform. Patents are suppressing innovation in the digital age by making it possible to monopolize methods and practices. Hundreds of thousands of patents sit on a shelf somewhere, never to be implemented, their ideas shut out from the rest of the world. That our law not only allows this, but enables this, is a travesty and a crime against innovators everywhere. Lastly, the routinization of privacy violations in the digital age must be halted. Never before has a Citizen faced so many opportunities to have their identity stolen, data misused, or personal information collected without their knowledge. This is done by not only identity thieves, but also the Government, and corporations. Using today's latest technologies enables these entities to act on a wholesale scale that is unheard of in past times. This alarming trend shows no sign of slowing down.
The Swedish one can be found at http://www2.piratpartiet.se/international/english
Paladin: The Holy Knight
16th March 2005
Why Piracy? Low funds and high prices. It isn't as simple to put down as car theft or breaking into a jewly store because a material copy isn't stolen, it's forged for personal use. Which is to say, the company looses no physical copies, copies are only produced, counterfits if you will. The price of everything is going up, and wages are staying low for the average person so it in many cases it's not a matter of whether or not they'd like to pay for it, it's a matter of whether or not they could afford it at all. In which case, if they can't, it's no loss to the company as that person would never had bought the product in the first place had they not pirated it.
If 100,000 people download an albulm, they've sold some millions for enough people to be willing to put it up for download by the 100,000. On many albums, as has been said before, there are a few good tracks and alot of rubbish ones added as filler, the company that produced the tracks makes a giant profit off of selling 90% filler CDs, and the artists get paid for their original commision and royalties, leaving the consumer with a half decent $20 product. It's a rip off when it comes down to it like alot of things, reselling old films in HD, charging hundreds to thousands for software, charging inumerable prices for games.
Many "pirates" don't have the money to waste of things that might not be good, or might not be able to pay for them at all. So they get copies for free, no damage to the company as they wouldn't have gotten them otherwise, and they are happy because they have a product. It's alot easier to go out and buy something than to download it over the course of weeks to months while risking detection by IP tracers that roam around tagging downloads and reportering them to their ISPs because they think it's wrong and consider themselves do-gooders in the internet world.
Heaven's gonna burn your eyes
16th April 2005
There's a Harvard study that came out a few years ago (and I've long lost the source for it, it was for a Year 12 study into copyright) into P2P sharing. The findings were that sales for the top 150 albums were increased by illegal filesharing, while niche albums and less popular albums suffered.
22nd March 2006
The way i look at my downloading is different than most people. If i know for a fact I would never buy it or try it in the first place, why not. The company thats producing it isn't going to gain my business one way or the other. Anything I truely love I won't pirate. I have never pirated anime. I refuse to download any manga. Those are two medias I love so much I reserve it as a future reward for the degree and career. As far as software goes, I would never buy software unless it came with the hardware im buying to use it on. I know for a fact I would never buy any software if there weren't mediums to download it, therefore I feel justified in not caring whether or not i download. If i was a business I would feel otherwise. For music I don't give a flip one way or the other. Before piracy I bought maybe 10 cds in the first 15 yrs of my life. Everytime I entered a cd store I felt clueless about what was good and what wasn't. As a result the first 10 cds were 90% crap. There was also a 400% markup on this crap. So here again I know i wouldn't buy music, so i know I'm not causing the company producing it any harm. They wouldn't be making money off me either way. As for movies, I tend not to download movies just because they are too large of a download and again i know i would probably end up buying or renting the movie at a later date. I also like having the cases to tell the difference from one movie to another. I do download tv series, like galactica and stargate. Since i don't have cable and they take forever to release them in the us on dvd I don't consider that unethical either. Bottom line is if i know i would buy it, I won't download it.
7th December 2003
For me it mostly depends on what product is pirated, but generally you can say that there is so much piracy because it's so damn easy to do and because there are (as of yet) little legal alternatives with realistic prices. For example, a German company offers a DSL-flatrate that includes free downloads of movies, completly legal. This is a good offer. 30 Euro for a DVD which I will watch only once is a bad offer. I can understand why many people use piracy if the alternative doesn't exist.
Most games: Most games today cost more and are of less quality than they used to be, even though more copies are sold throughout because of the increasing market. Piracy is a good way of punishing companies that are considered "bad" and purchasing the product is a way of rewarding a good company. The legal decrease of quality leads to a legitimate increase of piracy. This may just be a justification, but as long as it's true most people won't care.
TV-series: the translation of American series into German takes years and ultimately sucks. Then you also have to put up with constant advertisements, which are enough reasons for people not to watch TV at all and rather download the series and to later get the DVD for watching it again with good quality.
Waffle-Sprocket is broke
24th November 2003
its free/cheap, plain and simple. Why pay £70 for OEM XP when i can get ir for free? I dont care about updates they do nothing for it anyway. Linux is good but it still doesnt have all the frills i want.
Who honestly knows anybody who paid £500 for Photoshop? Nobody i know thats for sure. Why pay £15 for a DVD when i can rent it for the night for a quid and copy it if its any good? Of course its theft but its also common sense.