Will Europe ever have a black leader? 55 replies

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Quetron

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28th August 2006

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#11 10 years ago
Tanith;4773810I think the person who created this topic was a little confused. Europe is not a country its a continent comprised of many different countries which have there own elected leaders. There isn't really a leader of Europe so to speak.

Soooo, between France England and Germany (just those 3), all much older than the USA, has never found it in their hearts to reach out to other races? Glad you all know it is a figure of speech to be called Europe, but, doesn't that make it even worse? After all these years none of those countries have no official citizens, of different races, wow ? When it goes to throwing the stones us Americans we are soooo racist, but all of EU is exempt, hmm. smells of elitism too me.




Lampshade111

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#12 10 years ago

Well those Europeans who do go about slandering America believe they are exempt from their own criticism in any matter. My favorite is the way some immediately blame the United States for all the problems in the Middle East while ignoring their own history in the region. Or the way they talk about our abuse of Native Americans while ignoring what they did in Africa, Southeast Asia, and just about every other place they colonized.

You also have some Europeans in the United Nations demanding we make global warming a bigger issue here, while China and India get a free pass.




AlDaja

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#13 10 years ago
Rich19;4773583Probably because there is a much lower proportion of non-whites in Europe than there is in America. We're liberal in other aspects, having had several woman leaders.

Granted, however, since ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment (1920) women have progressively had a more significant leadership role in American politics with no resistance from their male counterpart or the public. The first female senator was in 1922 followed by an election win of a woman for the senate seat in 1930. Since that time America has also had the most women elected to “governorship” than other counterparts around the world. It's only a matter of time before a woman makes it to the White House. If Obama did not get elected, than we would have had the first Female VP in American History. I think America is progressing - as it always has.:)




Mitch Connor

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#14 10 years ago
You also have some Europeans in the United Nations demanding we make global warming a bigger issue here, while China and India get a free pass.

They'll get a "free pass" now because they aren't as influential yet. They look to America to do better because we're not a developing country, we're industrialized and (not to sound arrogant) the world looks to America as a role model. America is expected to do good because we're the biggest (now).




Mr. Matt VIP Member

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#15 10 years ago

Quetron;4773563Seeing as how I get called a racist for just about everything named under the sun, and I don't think this was ever a topic on the pub.[/quote]

Because you are. You've displayed as much in this very post. And don't forget the other names you've been called too!

As many Europeans on this very forum pointed out repeatedly, the fact that Obama is black should not have been, and I don't think it was, a reason for electing him. Policies and credibility a good leader make, skin color has no effect.

Being this forum is not run by Americans and has censorship big-time, and, with all this Obama inauguration hype

This forum is run by Americans, it is hosted in America, owned by an American company, and the only censorship it has is against rude, obnoxious, and offensive posters such as yourselves. You run around blatently insulting everybody, from your fellow members to the moderators themselves, you express yourself in a most disdainful manner and generally act like a troll.

As I've said to you many, many, many times in the past - clean up your posts and the moderators will let you post whatever opinions you want. There are plenty of right-winged, Christian posters on this forum who share your views on many things, and have never had a problem with expressing them. But that's because they are civilised, mature and respectful of others.

You, on the other hand, are most certainly not. You seem to be incapable of having a sensible, civilised discussion with anybody. I don't even know why I'm writing this post, because you won't read it, and if you do, you won't listen to it, and you'll respond with more hateful, partisan rhetoric as you always do.

Construct an intelligent argument to put forward your case and maybe you'd have a bit more respect around here. That is what The Pub is for after all.

and Europe is a much much much older country.

Europe isn't a country. Several countries on the European continent, and even in the European Union itself, were actually formed much more recently than the United States of America, too.

Why haven't you foreigners ever elected a non white woman or man? or did we miss it in the news or history books. others comments to see

It's aggressive comments like "you foreigners" (all you needed to do was add in the word dirty and you'd probably have found that particular sentence 'censored' too) which earn you your censorship, cause people to call you a racist, and which attract the future attentions of forum staff. Knock it off and your forum visits would be so much more peaceful.

Anyway. There have been numerous members of ethnic minorities elected into positions of political power through the years in Britain alone, let alone the rest of Europe. Members of Parliament, Mayors, parish councilors... you can find 'non whites' in many different levels of the political system at many points in time over the last couple of decades.

In order for us to elect a 'non white' Prime Minister, however, one firsts needs to stand for election. And because our elections work differently, whereby we don't technically 'elect' a Prime Minister but simply vote for somebody to occupy the seat of Parliament that represents our local constituency, and the leading party is chosen in that way rather than by a direct vote, it's not quite the same thing. We don't have a President in Britain, by the way, in case you were wondering.

[QUOTE=Quetron;4773861]Soooo, between France England and Germany (just those 3), all much older than the USA, has never found it in their hearts to reach out to other races?

'Reach[ing] out to other races' involves giving them equal rights and giving them the same opportunity to run for governmental positions. Which many have done in the past and present, some quite successfully.

What it doesn't mean is arbitrarily appointing them to positions of power based solely on the color of their skin. That wouldn't be helping them so much as insulting them.

Glad you all know it is a figure of speech to be called Europe, but, doesn't that make it even worse?

There's no country called Europe. What certain Americans choose to think of as 'Europe' is their business, just don't presume to think that we'll agree with it though. The countries making up the European continent have widely different cultures, as well as different political and legal systems. You can correctly refer to us collectively as Europeans if you want, much like we can refer jointly to Americans and Canadians as North Americans, but don't tell us that we're all one big country with a singular political system and culture.

After all these years none of those countries have no official citizens, of different races, wow ? When it goes to throwing the stones us Americans we are soooo racist, but all of EU is exempt, hmm. smells of elitism too me.

And this smells of grasping at straws and, far be it for me to ignore such an obvious link, creating strawmen too.

The fact is that so many people from European countries have been equally exuberant over Obama's victory - in some cases even more so than Americans themselves have been - should tell you something about their mindset. There has been no stone throwing, at least not from the sane proportion of the population. Rather, America has in fact earned a lot of respect back for being seen to overcome their past prejudices and choosing what they believe to be the 'best of the two, regardless of his skin color', nevermind whether or not those prejudices actually existed in the first place.

As for Europe as a whole, we haven't had black premiers not because of some inherent racist tendencies (although they do exist in unfortunately large across all of Europe, as they do in America and the world over), but simply because the right candidate hasn't risen to prominence yet. Again, the fact that so many Europeans veritably walked over each other to get a look at Obama when he visited should tell you something.

But it's not always clear-cut.

Because of Britain's political system, for example, a man like Obama can't suddenly decide to run for the position of Prime Minister. You need to create or join a political party, and then gradually work your way to the top spot, and only then can you start taking parliamentary seats with a view to leadership. This can take many, many general elections to achieve if it can be achieved at all and, much like America, generally speaking the 'big three' political parties (the Labour Party, the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democratic Party) are never replaced, they just swap places with each other. Which means if a man or a woman whether black or white wanted a shot at becoming Prime Minister, they would pretty much need to join one of those three parties (and the Liberal Democrats are a long shot at best), which are huge. It's a long, hard graft, and you need to be highly qualified, well connected, and have a certain frame of mind to get anywhere.

As for who occupies No. 10, that's up to the political party in command of Parliament more than it is the people of the country. As I mentioned before, during general elections we elect a local representative to become a Member of Parliament for our constituency, and the national leaders are chosen based on the quantity of seats in Parliament they hold (at its most basic level, anyway). The parties themselves elect a leader from their own ranks, and generally speaking it is that leader who becomes Prime Minister. Every single person in Britain could desperately want a black woman to become Prime Minister for no other reason than the color of his skin, but if there's no suitable candidate sitting in Parliament, or if that suitable candidate hasn't stabbed enough backs to get ahead in his or her party just yet, it's not going to happen. If you want to call anybody racist, then, look towards the politicians themselves.

That's just Britain's political system though. I can't speak for the other systems operating in Europe as I don't know enough about them. But as I've said throughout the whole Presidential election deal, it shouldn't matter. Seats in Parliament could be drastically out of synch with the ethnic make-up of the country - whether 100% white or 100% black - and it shouldn't really be important. Everybody who voted for Obama purely because of the color of his skin is just as idiotic and racist as the people who voted for McCain purely because of the color of Obama's skin. These are the people who lead our country, and they should be chosen based on their capabilities in that respect, not which shade of the visible light spectrum their skin fits best.




Huffardo

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#16 10 years ago

Quetron;4773861Soooo, between France England and Germany (just those 3), all much older than the USA, has never found it in their hearts to reach out to other races?[/QUOTE] The fad of using Africans as slaves never caught on here and since white people make most of the native population there never was a noticeable amount of black people in Europe until lately when immigrants started coming over from Africa in hordes.

Quetron;4773861Glad you all know it is a figure of speech to be called Europe, but, doesn't that make it even worse?[/QUOTE] It is a continent, not a figure of speech. Is the US school system really that bad?

Quetron;4773861After all these years none of those countries have no official citizens, of different races, wow ?

Of course they have, but those with citizenship are such a small percentage they will not take over for many decades to come.

Here the percentage of people of another race who have Finnish citizenship is very low indeed, I don't have the exact numbers, but it should be parts of a percent. As an example there were only three people of African descent in the municipality I lived a few years of my childhood in. A lot of the people there had never seen a black man before he and his son arrived from Ghana. People were obviously curious, but despite it being a small rural municipality with cows across the street from the town hall, with drunks and murderers being way overrepresented, nobody tried to segregate them or burn them up. The boy was actually my best friend and they integrated just fine.

Now almost two decades on things have changed. I live in a part of the city which is known and even (unfairly) feared for all its immigrants. Pretty much all first or second generation, most of them refugees. From the Balkans, Africa, Afghanistan etc. Generally speaking these people don't care about politics even enough to vote as long as they get their hard earned welfare money and can live their lives in peace. Many still dream about returning to their old home countries. The youth enjoy refreshing activities such as robbing and beating up people more than being active in political organizations. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have anything against it if the person was the right man for the job, but I strongly suspect there is a long way to go before we have a president with his or her roots in e.g. Somalia or Iraq even if they were atheists or christian. I can't even imagine a muslim being elected head of state, the US would have to do their worst to cause a flow of refugees serious enough to cause such a shift in the population.

[QUOTE=Quetron;4773861]When it goes to throwing the stones us Americans we are soooo racist, but all of EU is exempt, hmm.

The world isn't black and white, there is racism everywhere. It may be a few degrees worse over there, but that doesn't make it nonexistent here.

[QUOTE=Quetron;4773861]smells of elitism too me.

Something here does smell, but I don't think it is elitism.




Tanith

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27th September 2006

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#17 10 years ago

Just because America now has a black president some Americans think its now an anti-racist country and that European countries are racist because they don't have black leaders even though the percentage of blacks compared to whites in European countries has been very low.

I just got to ask America has had a much higher percentage of blacks than Europe for a very long time so what the hell took it so long to elect its first black president?

Have some Americans not stopped to consider that Obama winning the election by a landslide may of been because he was the better candidate and not just because he was black. Hell most of Europe wanted Obama to win the election even more so than some Americans. I even wanted him to win: Not because of his skin color but because I agree with his policies and I think he will set America on a better direction to repair the 8 years of damage done under the Bush administration. I have even grown to like America again because of Obama.

I do hope that the US educational system is better than what Quetron is conveying.




AlDaja

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#18 10 years ago
Tanith;4774046Just because America now has a black president some Americans think its now an anti-racist country and that European countries are racist because they don't have black leaders even though the percentage of blacks compared to whites in European countries has been very low. I just got to ask America has had a much higher percentage of blacks than Europe for a very long time so what the hell took it so long to elect its first black president?

Who? Quetron?:rolleyes: That's like one American (think he is American)...where are the some you refer to for your arguement. I have yet to find anyone that fits your statement in everyday life here in the states. To be frank, American public opinion doesn't give a rip about what is going on in Europe or Russia right now. We have our own economic issues to dwell on at the moment.

Have some Americans not stopped to consider that Obama winning the election by a landslide may of been because he was the better candidate

Obviously

and not just because he was black.

Well, actually most people DID voted for him because he was black. Stupid, I agree. People should have voted on the issues. Some did (older, more educated demographic) but the majority of younger and clueless among us voted based on race and/or because he was a Democrat (wait bro, what's a Demmo-crait again?) or anything/one but a Republican. If it was Hitler or a pile of sh't in a bag running for the Democratic ticket he/it would have gotten elected because he/it wasn't a Republican...although they'll try to tell you different, even though they can't give you much of what his platform and party stands for.:lookaround:

Hell most of Europe wanted Obama to win the election even more so than some Americans.

Of course they did - he's a socialist.

I think he will set America on a better direction to repair the 8 years of damage done under the Bush administration.

We will see. Obama has already had to back off on some of his campaign promises and will have to continue many of Bushes policies for a long while. He is also having problems with the Democrat controlled congress (of which he is a part). Politics is politics. We changed one asshole out for another.

I have even grown to like America again because of Obama.

Whatever...:rolleyes: Disliking a people/nation because of their current leadership is rather stupid, sorry but it is. That's like my neighbor who is racist toward white people because ONE white person mistreated him when he was a kid. See my point.

I do hope that the US educational system is better than what Quetron is conveying.

We can only hope. Unfortunately, our public school system sucks ass. We have a nation of tards going out into the world who can't locate their own state on a map nor have a clue who the sitting VP is...but they can tell you everything about hip hop and who Hanna Montana is. Not entirely the students fault. The curriculum and methodology is far behind other developed nations. Seems our education system has been falling pretty steady since the mid-nineties. :(




faro0485

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#19 10 years ago

The precentage of "colored" people in Europe or even other religions, has always been low.

For two reasons... it get's cold, and because of anti-muslim history (45% of African population is muslim). You can refer to Lord of the Rings regarding how anti.

Note that Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Somalian born muslim-turned-atheist) was quickly given a leadership role because how anti-islamic she was. Too bad for her, they caught her as a liar.

This is not about color, this about how well a candidate can be sold to the people in the act (as an actor) of leading. Note those who did not comply - Abe, J. A. Garfield, William McKinley, JFK.




AlDaja

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#20 10 years ago
faro0485;4774094The precentage of "colored" people in Europe or even other religions, has always been low. For two reasons... it get's cold, and because of anti-muslim history (45% of African population is muslim). You can refer to Lord of the Rings regarding how anti. Note that Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Somalian born muslim-turned-atheist) was quickly given a leadership role because how anti-islamic she was. Too bad for her, they caught her as a liar. This is not about color, this about how well a candidate can be sold to the people in the act (as an actor) of leading. Note those who did not comply - Abe, J. A. Garfield, William McKinley, JFK.

:wtf:...does this have to do with the thread/topic. Can't just place quotes or random snippets from somewhere without explaining the context...