Will you take this canine to be your lawful wedded... 168 replies

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masked_marsoe VIP Member

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#161 12 years ago

No, don't bring other arguments into this just yet, we'll come to those later. :) No morality, no other ideas. Just your own personal opinion.

Should necrophilia be legal (or decriminalised), if there is consent from both parties (or appropriate representatives of...) involved?




Joe Bonham

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#162 12 years ago

Fair enough. Definitely not. Anyone who would want to have sex with a child, a dog, or a dead body is a very sick person.




masked_marsoe VIP Member

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#163 12 years ago

Yes. I'm not disputing the person (so ignoring mental state), only the legality of the issue of necrophilia.

That will not change your mind?




Joe Bonham

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#164 12 years ago

No - mental perversion is something to be TREATED - not legalized.




Lolly

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#165 12 years ago

I agree, Mach. People like this need to be treated. Some people frown upon racial marriages, eg. A Caucasian marrying a Black American (Which is completly un-necessary, aslong as they love each other it doesn't matter) BUT when people marry animals (Things of an entirely different species), people who find animals sexually attractive need help.




Joe Bonham

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#166 12 years ago

A creature should be judged by its inner workings, not its outside appearance. A black person is just as intelligent, and is just as much a person as a white or Asian person. But a dog is a dog. Its little brain is based on instinct, not emotion.




Draco_2k

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#167 12 years ago

Machiavelli's ApprenticeLegalizing pedophilia would blow to hell the whole "consent" doctrine.[/quote] Uh... How's that?

Machiavelli's ApprenticePerhaps. I could see someone who accepts pedophilia accepting a dictatorship.[/quote] I have to admit, I don't get your line of sight on this one. Someone who would allow libety in any aspect would also agree to have it ripped away?..

Machiavelli's ApprenticeSilence is a sign of consent. What you think of the event is irrelevant unless you are willing to take action about it.[/quote] Agreed. However, I believe I haven't explained myself on this one...

...I just don't see any sense in wasting one's life in a futile attempt to change things one never could change. It's a matter of recognising one state or another which is more important: as long as I know I can affect things in one way or another, I would, but if it's too late, I won't go to the main plaza and declare war to the "better world" just to get myself killed. I recognise more value in any man's life and freedom rather than some (non-existant) concepts. You see, there's always a choice.

Machiavelli's ApprenticeBTW - You're fun to debate with - you get some good rep. ;)[/quote] You beat me to this line. ;)

Locomotor Would you mind repeating what I said, if you wouldn't mind doing so?[/quote] "...Are you saying that all this sh*t you are defending won't lead to..."

If that's not an insult, then I don't know what is. Meh, let's just forget about this - after all, it's my fault to take offence on this one.

Machiavelli's Apprentice Sex slavery is a big industry in Europe right now.

Like it ever wasn't. As already said, real jerks don't need any kind of laws to wreak havok.

[quote=Machiavelli's Apprentice] No - mental perversion is something to be TREATED - not legalized.

You pervert! You spend your otherwise productive days on internet forums!

What the hack is this?.. Do you rember the exact meaning of word "pervertion"? "Something awkwards to mental rules", a dead loop it is: it's not in the rules, thefore, shall not be allowed... We're quite criticizing the system here, so, as MM said, that's not really an argument.

[quote=Lolly]People like this need to be treated. Some people frown upon racial marriages, eg. A Caucasian marrying a Black American (Which is completly un-necessary, aslong as they love each other it doesn't matter) BUT when people marry animals (Things of an entirely different species), people who find animals sexually attractive need help.

Same here. You do know that people whole approved off interracial marriages were also, not too long ago, perverts?..

[quote=Machiavelli's Apprentice] A creature should be judged by its inner workings, not its outside appearance.

:nodding:

[quote=Machiavelli's Apprentice]But a dog is a dog. Its little brain is based on instinct, not emotion.

Are you sure you know so much about dogs?.. Plus, everything has emotions - it's the base of life itself.

...

A note on corpses:

[quote=Draco_2k] Necrophilia:

1)Whatever. As long is no one hurt (physically and mentally), it's okay - it's just that most people find such stuff sick and probably wouldn't want to touch it with the barge pole, hence producing logically unsound laws for what is, in fact, harmless.




Draco_2k

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#168 12 years ago

Guys?..

...Oh well, since the discussion has pretty much died, I think I'll just underline everything said, for the future...

The collection of previous vital posts:

Spoiler: Show

All things moral underskin: Quote: Originally Posted by The 13th Raptor Why don’t you all mind your own god damn business for once? Don’t you have enough of a life to concern yourself with, do you somehow "need" to look at others continuously and spit on them for what they think is good? Most morals have no rational basis, and we are all individuals here, how can you expect intelligent people to all fallow what you and others think is "right" when they can think for themselves? I cant figure out how you can possibly believe that. If someone wants to sleep with an animal, let them do so as long as nobody gets hurt, let them get married, why stop these people from doing what makes them happy? If some women wants to be a prostitute, by all means, they should be allowed to do so, its their choice. As for things not always working out, i can recall several laws that "don’t always work out" quite as intended but are still supported by most people. Same goes for polygamy, its not YOUR business, its theirs. What you guys see as "The Decay of Moral Society" is simply people expressing what they have always felt. Why we are afraid to allow anything: Quote: Originally Posted by Ghost The problem with this kind of stuff is where to draw the line. You don't want to infringe on people's "rights", but you don't want them to do something that's "wrong", either. Homosexual relationships, etc, can exist, yeah, but I don't think it's really a good idea or even healthy to have sexual relations with an animal. Same for underage sex, the reason younger kids around 12-13 etc can't have sex with an adult is because they probably don't actually understand what they'd be doing, or the repecussions of it. Plus you have to admit that it's creepy in the first place. Sex=abuse? Quote: Originally Posted by The 13th Raptor You are right when you say sex can mean a great deal, but i dont see how having sexual relations with people just for the fun of it takes anything away from that. I can be friends with someone and enjoy.. things with him/her, that wont change the fact that we are friends, why would i start seeing them as objects? I wouldnt, some other people might, but married people are not excluded from this, so im afraid im not seeing your point. Changing and double-faced morals: Quote: Originally Posted by The 13th Raptor I'm sure Nazi’s in general had plenty of morals, just like those pleasant folk operating those plantations in the United states not that long ago. I'm sure many of them claimed to be hard core Christians, but that didn’t stop them from enslaving negro's and stringing them up if they did something wrong. Morals can be a virtue, they can also be dangerous. They change with time, for better or for worse, but I don’t think i as a person or you as a society have the right to feel superior over another because they do not fallow your morals. Whether it is wrong or not is up for dispute though, like always. Morals enforcement: Quote: Originally Posted by Draco_2k Just for sake of it... To the hell with marriage, legally punishing people for what is by all means harmless to anyone is what doesn't fit with all reasons conceiveable. You find things sick? Well, others may not - pretending there's a universe scale of what is right or wrong is heckishly stupid - world is diverse enough, thank gods. "How are 1)zoophilia, 2)necrophilia, 3)pedophilia, and etc. not harmful, to everyone?": Quote: Originally Posted by Draco_2k 1)you don't have pets at home do you? Because, if you did, you'd know it'd be harmful to yourself to make them do anything they don't want; 2)the guys are dead and long gone to the afterlife, they couldn't care less; 3)if it's a 2-side agreement, it's pretty much an ordinary way of things - no one ever got hurt by beign loved. 4)Everyone, if I get it right, don't really have to stare at the things they find disgusting. Maybe you just didn't give the subject a deeper thought? Because, if you did, all of it is pretty obvious. Society is known by biasing opinions on the biggest scale, but, god dammit, you could try and think about things yourself. Law & Morals: Quote: Originally Posted by Draco_2k Laws and morals and spirits are diferent things, if you get my drift. Besides, laws never stopped the jerks whose aim was solely sexual abuse. Line-up by EON_MagicMan: Quote: Originally Posted by EON_MagicMan Paedophilia is the attraction to someone who is prepubescent or hasn't reached sexual maturity. Even a 60 year old man dating a 16 year old girl is not pedophilia. It's still strange, but we have some understanding of this in the law, which is why we have bracketed age-of-consent laws. I think that's fair enough. To suggest that we aren't 'socially advanced' or conditioned enough to allow a relationship between a pedophile and a child (prepubescent person) is ludicrous, simply on the grounds that the child isn't mature enough to not be manipulated and to acknowledge the relationship for what it is, even if the child 'consents' (see Child Grooming : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_grooming). Laws against pedophilia are well in place, rest assured, and if you disagree, think back to your maturity level before and during puberty. Could you possibly have had a healthy *intimate* relationship with an adult?' As for animal relationships, go ahead, fuck your dog, I don't care, I'll just suspect there's something wrong with you (which there is, either there is something wrong and you're attracted to a different species of animal, or you're just incredibly lonely and inanimate objects as masturbation just isn't cutting it). If your dog likes it, bonus, if he doesn't, it's a form of animal abuse. Now, to ask that this sort of relationship be legally recognized is nothing short of crazy. No animal, not even the most intelligent chimpanzee could fully understand the concept of a marriage. Period. It ends there. Have a little ceremony, invite your family, but don't bother asking the State to recognize it and filing prenuptual agreements. As for necrophilia, that too indicates something's wrong. Digging of a random body and having your way with it is violating the family of that bodie's rights, and most likely that persons post-humous wishes, too (doesn't matter what you believe about death, you still have to acknowledge someone's will). Now, if a terminal wife gave permission or even wanted that in her will, her husband could have sex with her, post-mortem, I'll have to go join Locomotor with my head in the toilet bowl, but it's true that it doesn't harm anyone, it was permitted in the will, so go ahead. I think the main thing about this thread is that 2 out of 3 (zoophelia and necrophilia) are so uncommon, it doesn't even matter. It especially doesn't matter enough to sort out the legal issues. Pedophilia, however, the third, and sadly most harmful and most common, is illegal for good reason. If you can't see that, then maybe you should spend time with a child and see how mature they are. What the hell is wrong with these people: Quote: Originally Posted by Draco_2k On the unrealted note, it's a product of certain psychic patterns flowing through one's brain thingy. Psychologically speaking though, the healthiest state of mind is hypersexuality ( :naughty: ), however, for the species for not to die out, the nature directs it's flows towards male-female relations, which is then (in case of humans) is beign imprinted into the very foundations of society, a taboo emerging, another natural, but unstable, and highly flawed survival mechanism. What we're speaking of here is individuals, who (kindly) ask the society to mind it's own business, while they make it out with their own, a bit more peculiar, lives whilst dweling in the very heart of the Matrix... *Ahem* By the whole picture, it's just a question of mental progress (if such exists): would the society be slowly restore each individuals natural rights to exist in every way of it, or are the most of us are too retarted to both allow that happen and beign a sole reason for it not to? ...What could possibly go wrong if you allowed people to express their inner feelings if they want to? The era of 2k suggested that - nothing. Democracy & freedom: Quote: Originally Posted by The 13th Raptor Most of us are living in democracy's, we like to see ourselves as the light of the world because we have our freedom. If you really believe in democracy you need to recognise these people and their way of life, doing away with it as "ewww", or "freaks" is hardly fair, and i'd call that the real danger, looking at these things objectively is far from that. A 'slippery slope': Quote: Originally Posted by I forgot who This is the slippery slope. When this movement first started back in the 60s, the idea of legalizing same sex marriage wasn't even on the radar screen. Back in the 90s when they wanted to legalize same sex marriage, recognizing polygamy and marriage with animals wasn't even on the radar screen. Now we've accepted all of those things. Yet these people still insist that the next step in the process, will "never happen" and is "out of the question". What can be worse than zoophilia?..

The 13th RaptorThat all said and done, I still don’t see the logic in banning the practise, for the simple reason that much worse things are perfectly legal and accepted.

-Amputation for "good looks", such as with the tail. -Neutering. :uhoh: -Cosmetic/pharmaceutical testing -Breeding them simply for the fur -and food -Breeding them to the point where they are nothing short of handicapped when compared to others of their species. -training them to do police work where they get shot/kicked.

And so on. Most of these things are basically abuse in all cases, but its fine, and no one but lefty hippy scum looks out for these critters, but it’s still legal with no sign that its ever changing. But at the same time its wrong for a person to engage in a physically harmless act? Riiight.[/quote] To the hell with law!

Masked MarsoeIt looks to me like people get exploited anyway. Just as I can buy drugs even though they're illegal. Just because paediphilia is illegal doesn't mean it won't happen. Perhaps if people know how and what to do with it if they encounter it and find it bad, then there won't be such a problem.

It's possible that animals are willing sexual partners. It's possible that children are too. Not all animals, nor all children. But the numbers of pediphiles and zoosexuals is probably not much bigger than the numbers of willing participants.

Will you start killing people just because it's legal? [quote=Masked Marsoe]Just becuase it could become law in the future doesn't mean that everyone will rush out to copulate with animals and children. The trends will stay the much same. It happened here with prostitution. A soon as that law went through, women didn't pour onto the streets to sell themselves. In fact, it's made it easier. Brothels say they're brothels. Likewise, paediphiles would say they are paediphiles. No more blind witch-hunts are needed once you bring it into the open.

Fundamental lines:

1)We cannot change the way people think - no one ever suceeded in that in 8,000 years. You can only lock certain human's feelings behind a concrete wall, so they have to find their way out in the most harmful ways;

2)Impaling the same line of thinking on the whole humankind is reckless and pointless - each life is different, so it should think for itself, unique;

3)Legally alowing harmless stuff can't do any harm to the society, but will please the what we consider to be minorities. Polygamy:

1)Love is auniversal feeling: a man can love anything - from punk to reggae and from sports to art - and this naturally applies to human relations as well, 'lone marriage' is pretty much all about an induced myth, alongside with other flawed social self-regulation mechanisms, anyway. Paedophilia:

1)Physical and mental ages are not so directly associated - what is ok for a 5-year-old might still b inconceivable by some 50-year-old old bag. Age is irelevant - what matters is each individual person itself;

2)Kids are people, let's not deny their right to perceive this world on the same scale as the 'adults' - as long as one is informed on the subject, one can decide decide whetver to consent to certain treatment or not, just like anyone does, it's just that a kid might not understand what may happen if so-and-so, hence the lack of information on the subject - so here is where law and education have to go hand-in-hand to prevent complete mayhem on the consiense case. Zoophilia:

1)We and enimals are equals, therefore, should be recognised equal in rights and abilities;

2)Animals can and do protest against anything you try to force them to do - the alert of it is nearly impossible to miss unless you've never seen a living in your life - therefore, as long as sexual acts are voluntarily accepted by both sides, it is to be considered harmless and carries no logical reasons to be banned. Necrophilia:

1)Whatever. As long is no one hurt (physically and mentally), it's okay - it's just that most people find such stuff sick and probably wouldn't want to touch it with the barge pole, hence producing logically unsound laws for what is, in fact, harmless.

...

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Draco_2k

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#169 12 years ago

168. I don't gain extra health by taking up extra medicine.