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#91 11 years ago
Aeroflot

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#92 11 years ago

Ryette;4613766No, he said he wasn't really happy with the bill and called the earmarks "unfortunate." And you can't blame the American public for asking for some sort of consistency within a candidate; people like to at least have an idea of what they're getting when they cast their vote.

But how can you, one day, say that the bill is terrible and you won't vote for it, and then a few days later say the bill is a necessary evil?

Even throwing that aside, the fact that he'd support such a terrible bill in any scenario is damaging.

Consistency is good for some things, but it is bad whenever the people want or need a change. There must have been a reason for McCain to change his mind, and a good reason, too. You don't think that he would just change his mind just because, do you? We are very close to election time and I doubt McCain would want to ruin his chances at this time. Now, if he does have a reason, I havn't heard it, which will hurt him, but maybe if the economy improves right away then he will be a hero. I think he has a right to change his mind. I don't see why we vote for political parties and ideologies and not men with sense enough to do what they think is correct instead.




Ryette

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#93 11 years ago
Aeroflot;4614150Consistency is good for some things, but it is bad whenever the people want or need a change. There must have been a reason for McCain to change his mind, and a good reason, too. You don't think that he would just change his mind just because, do you? We are very close to election time and I doubt McCain would want to ruin his chances at this time. Now, if he does have a reason, I havn't heard it, which will hurt him, but maybe if the economy improves right away then he will be a hero. I think he has a right to change his mind. I don't see why we vote for political parties and ideologies and not men with sense enough to do what they think is correct instead.

Yeah, it's good when people need change, which they do, but this isn't the change they need. As for why he voted for the bill, he considered it, as I said, a necessary evil. No, I don't think he'd change his mind "just because," obviously I'm not that juvenile in thinking. It's just really pathetic seeing all this inconsistencies, things he said were completely unacceptable (earmarks), and then voting for it regardless; not to mention he's a huge proponent of de-regulation, yet he's voting for a bill that includes having more government oversight. If it isn't going to hurt him, he needs some explanations of why he can suddenly switch policies to vote for an unpopular bill.

Speaking of the election and this hurting him, you do realize that Obama voted for the bill as well? This was a great chance for McCain to show that he was different from Obama, that he wouldn't stand for outrageous earmarks, and that he wouldn't shift the responsibility of this to the American tax-payers, asking them for nearly $1 trillion.

If the bill does make the economy bounce bank instantaneously--which it won't--McCain isn't a hero because, as I said, Obama voted the same way. He had the opportunity to show how he was better than Obama, and more concerned with the interests of the middle-class, and he blew it.

Also, about your bolded statements ... I don't vote for partisan idealogies, and I do vote for men with sense. If you took some time to look, you'd notice that I support an Independent candidate, so this has nothing to do with me picking on McCain for being a Republican. It has to do with him being inconsistent and voting for something that should never have been passed. I wouldn't call voting for this bill having sense enough to save the economy.




Aeroflot

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#94 11 years ago
Ryette;4614728Yeah, it's good when people need change, which they do, but this isn't the change they need. As for why he voted for the bill, he considered it, as I said, a necessary evil. No, I don't think he'd change his mind "just because," obviously I'm not that juvenile in thinking. It's just really pathetic seeing all this inconsistencies, things he said were completely unacceptable (earmarks), and then voting for it regardless; not to mention he's a huge proponent of de-regulation, yet he's voting for a bill that includes having more government oversight. If it isn't going to hurt him, he needs some explanations of why he can suddenly switch policies to vote for an unpopular bill.

Which I agree on.

Speaking of the election and this hurting him, you do realize that Obama voted for the bill as well? This was a great chance for McCain to show that he was different from Obama, that he wouldn't stand for outrageous earmarks, and that he wouldn't shift the responsibility of this to the American tax-payers, asking them for nearly $1 trillion.

If the bill does make the economy bounce bank instantaneously--which it won't--McCain isn't a hero because, as I said, Obama voted the same way. He had the opportunity to show how he was better than Obama, and more concerned with the interests of the middle-class, and he blew it.

If the economy fails then it's the middle class that will vanish, so he is trying to help them in that sense, even if it is the longer run.

And McCain will be a hero for changing his mind if the economy rebounds because he changed his mind. This is regardless if he and Obama voted for the same thing. They will both be heroes of the economy, but McCain will, I think, be seen as more of one because he initially opposed it and then had the courage to go back against what he said before. As you said, McCain saw this as a necessary evil, so why not go for the necessary evil? Why vote against the bill to be wrong about it just so he can be different from Obama? This whole thing is pretty big and I'm going to stick with the idea that he really thought his change in mind was right. McCain isn't stupid and wouldn't agree to this without a good reason.




Ryette

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#95 11 years ago

Aeroflot;4614776If the economy fails then it's the middle class that will vanish, so he is trying to help them in that sense, even if it is the longer run.

And McCain will be a hero for changing his mind if the economy rebounds because he changed his mind. This is regardless if he and Obama voted for the same thing. They will both be heroes of the economy, but McCain will, I think, be seen as more of one because he initially opposed it and then had the courage to go back against what he said before. As you said, McCain saw this as a necessary evil, so why not go for the necessary evil? Why vote against the bill to be wrong about it just so he can be different from Obama? This whole thing is pretty big and I'm going to stick with the idea that he really thought his change in mind was right. McCain isn't stupid and wouldn't agree to this without a good reason.

No, it will be the middle-class workers who save the economy.

The economy won't rebound because he changed his mind. Even with his fake campaign suspension and brief time in Washington, he didn't win any Republican votes. At least when Obama went to Washington for the bill, he spoke on it. McCain is no hero for the economy, only an irritant.

And voting against a bill to gain a political advantage isn't really unheard of, if you have followed politics, well, um, EVER. But ideally that wouldn't happen, so I'll make my case in the ideal world. He should vote against a bill because it contains things that he claimed to stand against. If he can't stand up and defend the American taxpayers from $150 billion in earmarks, what is that saying about him?




Aeroflot

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#96 11 years ago
Ryette;4614798No, it will be the middle-class workers who save the economy.

The middle class workers will save the economy after this bill helps them keep their jobs.

The economy won't rebound because he changed his mind. Even with his fake campaign suspension and brief time in Washington, he didn't win any Republican votes. At least when Obama went to Washington for the bill, he spoke on it. McCain is no hero for the economy, only an irritant.

Sure McCain got some votes for the bill. Not a lot on his own probably, but he did. LINK

And voting against a bill to gain a political advantage isn't really unheard of, if you have followed politics, well, um, EVER. But ideally that wouldn't happen, so I'll make my case in the ideal world. He should vote against a bill because it contains things that he claimed to stand against. If he can't stand up and defend the American taxpayers from $150 billion in earmarks, what is that saying about him?

You're missing my point. The point is why not vote for something that could help the US? What does it matter that he doesn't like the bill? If it's necessary, which he admitted, then what choice does he have? He won't win voters by going back on his word, but do more votes = what's right? No, because voters don't know enough about politics. They see that a certain candidate will help them save $1000 next year so they scream "OOOOOOOOoo!! OOOOOOOO!!! Vote for hiM!!!!" if they aren't already stupidly aligned to the party they only vote for because it's tradition. People are selfish and want only for themselves and not for the country as a whole.




Ryette

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#97 11 years ago
Aeroflot;4614828The middle class workers will save the economy after this bill helps them keep their jobs.

Indeed, but it never should have been the middle-class workers who had to save the economy in the first place. It's not that they want to be ones responsible for saving it; the burden was thrust upon them by Washington.

Sure McCain got some votes for the bill. Not a lot on his own probably, but he did. LINK

Ha, a valiant effort.

You're missing my point. The point is why not vote for something that could help the US? What does it matter that he doesn't like the bill? If it's necessary, which he admitted, then what choice does he have? He won't win voters by going back on his word, but do more votes = what's right? No, because voters don't know enough about politics. They see that a certain candidate will help them save $1000 next year so they scream "OOOOOOOOoo!! OOOOOOOO!!! Vote for hiM!!!!" if they aren't already stupidly aligned to the party they only vote for because it's tradition. People are selfish and want only for themselves and not for the country as a whole.

No, sir, you're missing my point. The point is why vote for something that hurts the majority of U.S. citizens? It matters that he doesn't like the bill because the bill is a bad plan. Why vote for a bad plan? Being rushed into something usually means that things are going to go wrong, fast. And of course more votes doesn't equate to what's right, but you saying that voters don't know enough about politics trumps this entire debate. Though I'd be inclined to agree that you don't know enough about politics, but personal opinions aside, voters care more about the issues than you give them credit for.

And no. That is not what they do. I'm not sure what voters you've seen, but the people I've discussed politics with certainly aren't like that. As for being selfish, that is the point. Why on earth would anyone vote against his own interests? That doesn't make any sense. As a student, I'm going to vote for the candidate that best supports education reform and who is going to give me the best prospects on student loans. A senior citizen, on the other hand, is going to vote for the candidate that supports medicare reform and support for their 401k.




Aeroflot

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#98 11 years ago

I don't know enough about politics? And what type of Godly certificate do you have that says you're right? All I know is that you're low enough to use personal attacks against me instead of keeping this mature... so maybe I should concede this argument since you are indeed a true politician.




Metall_pingwin

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#99 11 years ago
Aeroflot;4614870I don't know enough about politics? And what type of Godly certificate do you have that says you're right? All I know is that you're low enough to use personal attacks against me instead of keeping this mature... so maybe I should concede this argument since you are indeed a true politician.

Really? After you yourself implying that she doesn't know anything about politics?




Aeroflot

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#100 11 years ago

Yeah, where? Just go ahead and point it out because I'd like to see where I implied anything about her.