Should Marker0077 get the boot from the JK2/JK3 forums? -1 reply

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Marker0077

Some n00b that binds specials

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10th August 2002

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#1 17 years ago

I am looking to get some staff feedback on this because my personal opinion is ShroomDuck is/was being unproffessional about this situation. Perhaps I am wrong in that opinion, that's why I am looking to have everyone to tell there side of the story, then hear what everyone thinks.

Here's how it started... Lee Oattes (Duelers mod coder) & I used to be partners. Things went sour after awhile & I tried negotiating with him on him using my work & me using his - he refused. He then took my work without my permission, so I talked with Pro-Filer & ShroomDuck on the situation. Pro-Filer felt that it was a problem between Lee & I so he was staying out of it.

I tried negotiating with ShroomDuck on it & at first, he was totally cool. When I chatted with him the next day he was giving me a hard time about the files, saying that a lot the work was done by third party members, which they are but they give me permission to use it. It was at this point (because of ShroomDuck) that I had to get copyright permission over my modified version of the third party members works. ShroomDuck still refused to remove the files.

I tried being nice about it & got blown off, so at that point, I sought out legal action. ShroomDuck, Pro-Filer, Lee, & some FilesNetwork affiliates (including FileFront) were put on Notice to stop hosting my copyrighted works, what the exact laws are that protect them (which are U.S. laws but are enforceable in most other contries, including Canada), etc; etc.

Pro-Filer was upset at first, however after calming down, his position was take the copyrighted files down & leave me (Marker0077) alone. He was still willing to host me for Cool Mods for JK2/JK3 & leave me as staff as well.

The current problem... I had talked with ShroomDuck & I had told him that discussing the lawsuit with him was a moot point (well I actually said mute but I meant moot :)) because this was not his company that was in jeopardy. I think he took that the wrong way because I was removed from the forums as JK2/JK3 staff. When I asked ShroomDuck about why I was removed, he said that I am a "liability" to JK2Files.com/JK3Files.com.

  1. If I am such a "liability", why would you get rid of your 1 bargaining chip you have with me?
  2. What does the lawsuit have anything to do with me being staff? Does anyone actually believe that if I was not staff that I would not have taken the beginning steps to begin the lawsuit?
  3. ShroomDuck STILL hasn't removed the files, even though (according to Pro-Filer) he was instructed to remove them over a week ago. If anyone is a "liability" here, it would be him. Wouldn't it?

Is it just me or does this "I am a liability" thing just not add up? My opinion is, this was ShroomDucks way of showing me that he has some sort of power over me & discussing it with him was not a moot point. Him & I had exchanged some other unfriendly words...

After I had got into it with ShroomDuck for a bit, I had taken it out on Pro-Filer. That was my mistake. I understand where PF was standing in all this & he did not deserve a nasty email from me because his site administrator for JK2/JK3 is giving me a problem. I did write an apology email to Pro-Filer after calming down & I can only hope he forgives me for my unproffessional behavior as far as that email is concerned. I never did recieve an email response back.

Where we are at now... I am looking for some feedback here folks & my job back. If the rest of you see that I am in the right here, perhaps that will pursued ShroomDuck to do the right thing & give me my job back. If not, well I guess you all will know what kind of a site administrator you have now won't you?

Most of the moderators & administrators for JK2/JK3 can tell you, I do a lot for the forums (SW Funnies thread, Lightsaber Tactics Guide, various hilt images for modelling, etc; etc.) but even if I didn't, isn't removing me from staff just unproffessional? I'm sorry but I just do not see the relevance. I have a personal conflict with Lee, so I do not moderate his forums - that's being proffessional in my opinion. This just isn't.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND, I did not want the lawsuit anymore than anyone else but no one was giving me much of an option now were they? Nothing was actually filed with the courts, although I could have. I was trying to keep this as friendly as possible because in court, there wouldn't be any room for friendship.

If someone had stolen your work, & keep in mind I had been working with this guy for 5 months or so, what would you do? All I did was fight for what is rightfully mine & for it, I got fired.

Either way I will still be GamingForums staff, so I will be here for helping with forums rules & whatnot, I've even made preparations with some of the admins to fix the SW Funnies thread, Lightsaber Tactics Guide thread, & the other modelling threads that are currently not working right because of this whole incedent; However, that will mean no more updates to the SW Funnies thread. Once it's fixed, it will stay as is.

I am not online as much as I used to, I am hoping to be back in my regular online habits in a couple of weeks but I will try to be on here every few days or so.

If you would like to see me still around as JK2/JK3 staff, let everyone know here. Thanks for your time either way people.




ShroomDuck

I'm too cool to Post

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11th August 2002

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#2 17 years ago

You brought up a lawsuit against Filenetworks, and I no longer felt comfortable having you work under my section of the network. End of story... it's as simple as that.




Marker0077

Some n00b that binds specials

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10th August 2002

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#3 17 years ago

ShroomDuck, I did not bring up a lawsuit, you were served with a notice - nothing more. If I wanted to file a lawsuit, you would have recieved a court order to not only remove the files, but appear in court.

Tell me, if I am such a liability, why didn't I just proceed with the lawsuit? I took the beginning steps, yes, however I did not actually file the lawsuit, which I very well could have.

Also, what option was I given? Did I or did I not try to work things out with you & Pro-Filer beforehand? Did I or did I not get blown off? So because I fight for what is rightfully mine & not allow others to push me around - I should get fired for it?

Pro-Filer himself said he has no beef with me in this matter, let me be hosted & allow me to be staff. Why is it you feel it is soooo necessary to give me a problem? If the CEO (whom may or may not be liable for the lawsuit) is cool with everything, why is it you (an employee whom is not liable) feel it is necessary to have me fired anyways?

Are you still sure this isn't out of spite because I gotta tell ya, the whole "you tried to sue us" stuff still just doesn't add up to me. how about the rest of you?




FileJune

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1st July 2002

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#4 17 years ago

it bothered me when you added FN's buiness parters that had nothing to do with the problem.




ShroomDuck

I'm too cool to Post

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11th August 2002

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#5 17 years ago

When I said "you brought up a lawsuit", I meant that you mentioned a lawsuit... which you did on many occasions. Sorry for the confusion.

You were a liability because you told me you were going through the steps of a lawsuit. If you had of told me you never would have done it, and had I not received a letter from your lawyer, I might have seen your intentions differently.

The option you should have taken was to let it go. After reviewing the file in question, I found that the work you claimed to own was actually the work of others that you either altered (in the case of a desktop published by Lucas Arts), or took screenshots of. The only semi-original work you did was the website, which has been removed.

Profiler may have no beef with it... and that's fine. However... I was hired to run JK2/JK3files.com in his best interests, and it is what I did and what I will continue to do.

This is not out of spite at all. I have no reason to spite you, and wish only the best for you.




Marker0077

Some n00b that binds specials

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10th August 2002

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#6 17 years ago
FileJuneit bothered me when you added FN's buiness parters that had nothing to do with the problem.

There were files & a website that were among my copyrighted works. FileFront & PlanetMirror hosts the files, so they were relevant.

While I believe it is MindCoders that is another company that is owned by Pro-Filer, if they host the website (which we were under the impression they do), they are liable as well. The lawsuit would not go for Pro-Filer as an individual, it would for for the companies that host any infringed software.

The only affiliated company that had no relevance, was GamingForums, however, no email was sent to them.

We are legally bound to give them notice in order to proceed with a lawsuit, I forget what the exact details are but if you have a decent lawyer, you could get out of it otherwise.

We did send out apology emails at Pro-Filers request, in that we stated that it is merely a precaution, they should be informed if they are doing something illegal. If you were hosting something illegally, wouldn't you want to know?

Keep in mind though, I tried working this out with everyone beforehand. Morally, this is a hands down case. I was forced to do this the legal way, which I could have been ALOT bruter about.

I'm not out for blood here people, I was out here to fight for what is rightfully mine, however, if I would have to pay for this to go to court... ya, then I would be out for blood, but I am/was doing EVERYTHING I possibly can to avoid all that.




Marker0077

Some n00b that binds specials

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#7 17 years ago

ShroomDuckWhen I said "you brought up a lawsuit", I meant that you mentioned a lawsuit... which you did on many occasions. Sorry for the confusion.

You were a liability because you told me you were going through the steps of a lawsuit. If you had of told me you never would have done it, and had I not received a letter from your lawyer, I might have seen your intentions differently.[/QUOTE]I was quite clear when we chatted. Either you remove the files or I pursued with the lawsuit, those were my exact words. Your exact words were "I'm not removing the files".

After you giving me a hard time & making me jump through extra loopholes (the whole getting copyright on third party works), I was a bit peeved to say the least. Even afterwards, I still didn't pursue with the lawsuit. I took the beginning steps, yes, but I did not actually file the lawsuit.

_

ShroomDuckThe option you should have taken was to let it go.[/QUOTE]Why should I? just because you say so? I was legally & morally in the right, the guy didn't want to share his work with me, so why should I let him steal mine?

The point I made here is I am not going to be pushed around. I fought for what is rightfully mine & I lost my job because of it.

_

ShroomDuckAfter reviewing the file in question, I found that the work you claimed to own was actually the work of others that you either altered (in the case of a desktop published by Lucas Arts), or took screenshots of. The only semi-original work you did was the website, which has been removed.

I own copyright on part of the desktop you are referring to, that's not all copyrighted by LucasArts.

As for the hilts, unlike Lee, I get permission for the work I use. People are so happy wiht it in fact, that they give me my own copyright on my modified version of their work. It's a big difference.

_[QUOTE=ShroomDuck]Profiler may have no beef with it... and that's fine. However... I was hired to run JK2/JK3files.com in his best interests, and it is what I did and what I will continue to do.

Ah, & exactly what threat is there? You keep mentioning this threat that I am, yet I have been here for over a year & so far, you are the only one that has a problem here.

If I am such a great big threat, why didn't I just proceed with the lawsuit? You have a lawyer, for 10 years right? Ask him, ask him what it is that I would have to do in order to pursue with a lawsuit, then come back here & talk to me about what a great big threat I am.

_[QUOTE=ShroomDuck]This is not out of spite at all. I have no reason to spite you, and wish only the best for you.

Well if not out of spite, out of something else. What you are saying just doesn't add up here. Not to me anyways.




Cpt_Nukem

Extremely confused..........

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27th May 2003

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#8 17 years ago

Ohh wow, how in the hell did I get invited into this, I cannot give you my opinion on this issue Marker, I am sorry for what has happened, but I cannot.




Marker0077

Some n00b that binds specials

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10th August 2002

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#9 17 years ago
Cpt_NukemOhh wow, how in the hell did I get invited into this, I cannot give you my opinion on this issue Marker, I am sorry for what has happened, but I cannot.

Ya me too. It's totally cool though man, this is just a staff issue so I wanted staff input on this. I have no problem with accepting that I am in the wrong, if I think I am, which I totally don't.

I (of course) was hoping that people will say the same thing I am & if not, say something that might allow me to see it from where ShroomDuck is standing because to me, this looks totally out of spite. Granted yes, it could be for other reasons other than spite but the reasons he is giving just doesn't add up.

I thank you for you & everyone elses time on this matter regardless. This is just a judgement call & I would like to hear other staff members opinions on this.

Also, I hate to get off topic but, can anyone see my avatar? I know I can't.




ShroomDuck

I'm too cool to Post

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11th August 2002

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#10 17 years ago
Marker0077I was quite clear when we chatted. Either you remove the files or I pursued with the lawsuit, those were my exact words. Your exact words were "I'm not removing the files".

Yes you were quite clear. I wasn't removing the files, so you were going to proceed with the lawsuit.

_I own copyright on part of the desktop you are referring to, that's not all copyrighted by LucasArts.

No you don't. LucasArts does. Taking someone elses copyrighted work, and slapping text on it DOES NOT make it yours.

If I am such a great big threat, why didn't I just proceed with the lawsuit? You have a lawyer, for 10 years right? Ask him, ask him what it is that I would have to do in order to pursue with a lawsuit, then come back here & talk to me about what a great big threat I am.

I never said you were a threat. I said you were a liability. As far as I was aware, from your communication and your lawyers communication with me, you were going to proceed with the lawsuit. I can't read your mind you know.

_Well if not out of spite, out of something else. What you are saying just doesn't add up here. Not to me anyways.

This is rediculous. I have NOTHING to spite you for. In fact... i have no feelings associated with you at all. This is all business, and I'm sorry if you perceive any of this as a personal attack.




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