May 30 Poll Results

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Who is your favorite TSL Jedi Council Member?

Master Kavar 45.6% (655)

Master Vash 15.3% (220)

Master Vrook 15% (216)

Master Atris 14% (202)

Master Ell 9.8% (141)

Total: 1434
Start: 05-23-2008 02:59
Last: 05-30-2008 00:02


#1 - Posted by: JediShemL (Staff) on 05-23-2008 at 03:06
My favorite is Kavar! :D

#2 - Posted by: A_L_I_E_N (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 03:47
I like Vrook. Annoying Jedi Masters ftw :lol:

#3 - Posted by: Revan91 (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 05:06
Kavar. Definitely. He is the best. As my second cousin would say: (He's from South Carolina "Man! Kavar is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!!" :lol:

#4 - Posted by: DarthHK (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 05:24
i liked Master Ell. he tried to understand what the exile went through and actually questioned the so called "wisdom" of the council that had grown arrogant but that's just me

#5 - Posted by: Salzella (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 05:32
Atris. I admit, i cared for her too :p

#6 - Posted by: Master_Ibonek (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 06:09
Anybody else think that Master Ell looks rediculous for a jedi master? Looks like a hobo to me......I pick Kavar. I think thats him, the one with blondish hair?

#7 - Posted by: Darth_Voldemort (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 06:13
My favorite is Master Kavar.

#8 - Posted by: paulo999 (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 07:14
lol when i first played kotor 2 i dunno why but he reminded me of jar jar... Vash :P why? you can find her without having to fight a cival war,mercenerys or dozzens of bounty hunters

#9 - Atris - Posted by: True_Sith (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 07:47
I don't like her personally, but her part in the Exile's return is well-developed. She deserves an award for her plotting XD

#10 - Posted by: JCarter426 (Staff) on 05-23-2008 at 08:04
Vash. She's the only one who respected the Exile, and the only one who was brave enough to take the fight to the Sith.

#11 - I see master vrook vote! no way hes favorite of mine :D - Posted by: Anjin16 (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 11:31
well i love all council members even vrook. but i prefer atris as ma master !!!!!!!!! and Master Ell look like my dad ! its the thruth :P. kavar is the hottest in the jedi council members . wonder how old is he/. atris shall teach me knowledge of the force and i prefer MASTER kvar to teach me combat. ill be da best ! BETTER THAN REVEaN }>.

#12 - Posted by: NiRv4n4 (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 12:22
How the bloody hell did Vrook and Atris get more votes than Ell! Ell is awesome, purple double saber and all!

#13 - Vash - Posted by: GrdAdmSenza (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 13:32
She took the fight to the SIth on M4-78, and won. She was much more proactive than the others, thats for sure, Ell and Kavar are a close second.

#14 - Posted by: Omega_007 (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 15:04
I'd have to toss up between Atris and Lonna Vash.

#15 - Posted by: B3n (Member) on 05-23-2008 at 15:18
I know that nobody will agree with me, but I voted for Vrook. Not because he's a person I would be likely of getting along with or anything like that, but rather because he was closer to a Jedi than anyone else there. From the start he understood what needed to be done and did his best at it. Kavar's an okay bloke, and so are the rest of them, as far as I'm concerned.

#16 - @B3n - Posted by: JediShemL (Staff) on 05-23-2008 at 18:01
[quote]I know that nobody will agree with me, but I voted for Vrook.[/quote]Well, I wouldn't say that. So far we have 60 people who have voted for Vrook, which means so far 59 agree with you. ;) [quote]Not because he's a person I would be likely of getting along with or anything like that, but rather because he was closer to a Jedi than anyone else there. From the start he understood what needed to be done and did his best at it.[/quote]The biggest flaw with Vrook (which was a problem with all the Jedi) is that he failed to see the Exile as the [u]only[/u] hope for the Jedi. The Exile was the answer against Nihilus. Taking away the Force from the Exile would have doomed the galaxy if Kreia hadn't stepped in because Nihilus would have destroyed it. If he had realized that (assuming the Exile is light side), he would have never been killed by Kreia and would have been around to see the Jedi order get rebuilt.

#17 - Jedi Council - Posted by: Ragnor25 (Member) on 05-24-2008 at 04:08
Shem is right. Vrook only wishes are self preservation. He isn't interested in the Jedi code. He states that we will do as we have done. That means run and hide that is not the Jedi way of life. He is a coward... To Protect and Serve are the Jedi way, Meet the enemy in battle. Even after you have found out all you can about the Merc's on Dantooine where does Vrook go? To watch the Merc's not help defend the people. He shows up later to help you out but that battle outome is the same with or with out mighty (LOL) Vrook. I voted for Kavar at least he is defending Onderon. Vash would be my next choice, at least she is investigating the mystery when she is killed. Ell questions the councils decision but combats it by hiding. Atris is an idiot who has turned to the dark side, which means she is no longer a Jedi. :mad: :furious:

#18 - Posted by: B3n (Member) on 05-24-2008 at 05:48
The reason the Jedi were hiding is because they knew they would be killed instantly by Nihilus if they showed themselves. If they shouldn't have been hiding, that basically means they should've just killed themselves. True, the Exile was the only defense against Nihilus, but neither Vrook nor any of the others had any possible way of knowing that. His actions were perfectly prudent considering all the information that he had available at the time.

#19 - Ahem - Posted by: A_L_I_E_N (Member) on 05-24-2008 at 06:02
Luke Skywalker noted that the greatest weapon of the Jedi was his mind, not his lightsaber skills or whatever. So all of you 'I-heart-battle-with-no-brains' people better re-think the position the Jedi were at that period. Kavar was defending, but he was still in hiding.Vash was dumb and thought that she could beat the Sith lord where he was at his best(a.k.a. Korriban) Vrook tried to solve the problem on Dantooine from the inside, which I think was the best option.Master Ell was doing nothing-so I think he shares the 'useless-Jedi-ever' place with Atris, who wasn't much of help either... not to mention that she was hell-of-an-arrogant bia..., who later turned to the dark side.

#20 - Posted by: DarkSkill56 (Member) on 05-24-2008 at 08:01
I think the reason I voted for Zez Kai Ell was because he was the ONLY Jedi Council member, excluding Lonna Vash, maybe, that tried to sympathize with the Exile. He wasn't like the stubborn-minded Vrook, who constantly thought that the Exile would be responsible for the death of the Jedi. All because she had the ability to form bonds with other force sensitives. I understand that Vrook was probably being cautious, which is good, but to be extremely cautious and paranoid is almost as bad as being overly confident when it comes to popularity. In the end, it comes down to either Kavar, Zez Kai Ell or Lonna Vash. These were the few people that didn't blame the Exile and actually tried to understand the point of view she was coming from. PS. Atris was just a total .witch. A weak one as well.

#21 - Posted by: DarthSidious3000 (Member) on 05-24-2008 at 12:10
Vandar. He's in a holovid in TSL. But since he's not on this poll, I'd say Kavar.

#22 - Kavar - Posted by: Revan46 (Member) on 05-24-2008 at 14:42
Personally since in reality in the game Vash is dead, Kavar is like the only one who actually had a relationship with the exile as her/his master. Plus I just like him :) I hate when he turns on you and has to be kill, I don't find it fair lol

#23 - Posted by: Indiana_Revan77 (Member) on 05-24-2008 at 18:07
Atris, to quote RedHawke: [quote]is HAWT![/quote] :p Also there was a major personality change that was cut. [quote]Kavar is like the only one who actually had a relationship with the exile as her/his master.[/quote] Kavar was [B]not[/B] the Exile's Master, I believe this was stated in game.

#24 - Posted by: coolyboy77 (Member) on 05-25-2008 at 02:55
Afcourse Vash Because i didn't have to use my own energy to kill her. it was already done for me.

#25 - Posted by: Vendak (Member) on 05-25-2008 at 03:00
It goes: Kavar, Vash, Ell, Atris, Vrook for me

#26 - B3N & A L I E N - Posted by: Ragnor25 (Member) on 05-25-2008 at 05:19
The nice thing about polls are that you are entitled to your opinion. Both of you chose the right Jedi by your comments. But not for me. I like Kavar, even though he listens to Vrook. But Vrook and the rest would have been better off to go hide while the Exile took care of Nihilus. Especially if he truely believed that it was an unwinable battle. Sometimes you need people of action. You can only analyze the situation so long. But to take the Exiles force powers away and swing the balance in Nihilus' favor would have condemned the Galaxy. Vrook is unable to look pass the fact that the Exile went to fight the Mandalorians defying his (Vrook & Council) orders. That is not looking for a solution or using your brain. If possible always use your enemies against each other. What if Vash had been strong enough to eliminate Sion on Korriban? At least she tried.

#27 - #26 - Posted by: A_L_I_E_N (Member) on 05-25-2008 at 05:35
Vash was arrogant and weak. Not only she was killed, she was captured.

#28 - Posted by: JCarter426 (Staff) on 05-25-2008 at 07:32
At least she didn't run and hide like the other four. :P

#29 - #28 - Posted by: A_L_I_E_N (Member) on 05-25-2008 at 07:38
We can compare the situation with the 2nd Great Jedi Purge.Rise of the Empire era.Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda hid, knowing they would be defeated if they started to swing lightsabers around.Obvious IQ, fi you ask me.

#30 - Posted by: JCarter426 (Staff) on 05-25-2008 at 12:24
Different scenario. Obi-wan and Yoda got up and started teaching others to fight when the time was right. That's what Vash did, actually. Vrook, Kavar, Ell, and Atris just hid, and when their only chance came along, they tried to destroy it out of fear.

#31 - Posted by: A_L_I_E_N (Member) on 05-25-2008 at 12:55
I think the whole High Jedi Council in that era, were a bunch of... well, they were just plain stupid.Except for Master Vandar I guess.That's why I think that the story/plot of TSL is worse than in the 1st KotOR :lol:

#32 - Posted by: JCarter426 (Staff) on 05-26-2008 at 11:33
:rolleyes: I'm going to let that one go. :p

#33 - Posted by: A_L_I_E_N (Member) on 05-26-2008 at 12:04
I WIN!!!! :lol: jk

#34 - Posted by: DarthPhantomius (Member) on 05-26-2008 at 16:24
Master Ell was my favorite, could care less about Atris and Vrook though.

#35 - Posted by: Ragnor25 (Member) on 05-27-2008 at 03:55
Alien, you have not won anything. As I stated, it is your opion. It has not changed the fact that Vrook was wrong, a coward and an idiot. Nor was he like any Jedi in any of the Star Wars Movies. Their is a time to run and a time to Fight. This is the time to fight.

#36 - Posted by: DarthKoon (Member) on 05-27-2008 at 06:17
Ell questions the councils decision but combats it by hiding. Atris is an idiot who has turned to the dark side, which means she is no longer a Jedi. So in the end wiv vash dead the the only real jedi left were kavar and Vrook and vrook had "Isues"

#37 - #35 - Posted by: A_L_I_E_N (Member) on 05-27-2008 at 07:13
Ragnor25, I can argue about the time for a fight. If the Jedi had waited a little longer, the Sith would turn on themselves(auto-kill) Because they didn't care much for being in control of the galaxy. Vrook was overprotective of what he believe in. But IF they would fight, Nihilus would destroy them like he did on Katarr. He was more than a match for the Jedi, and facing him would be suicide. Same would as if Obi-Wan would face Palpatine-overkill.

#38 - Posted by: JCarter426 (Staff) on 05-27-2008 at 09:58
Obi-wan found someone who was strong enough to fight. What did Vrook, Ell, and Kavar do? They found that person, and then tried to kill them. Yeah, that's going to work, guys. :rolleyes:

#39 - Posted by: A_L_I_E_N (Member) on 05-27-2008 at 10:11
Not well developed characters, that's what I think.

#40 - Posted by: JCarter426 (Staff) on 05-27-2008 at 12:41
Quite the contrary. They were well developed [i]because[/i] of that; they were so blinded by their cowardice and arrogance that they nearly destroyed their last chance at defeating the Sith, and got themselves killed.

#41 - @ JCarter426 - Posted by: Advena (Member) on 05-27-2008 at 16:41
I can't really agree with the "cowardice and arrogance" bit. You seem to echo Kreia's thoughts and her bias towards Jedi Masters. This is just one of the possible interpretations, as she is a clear example of unreliable narration.

#42 - Posted by: JCarter426 (Staff) on 05-27-2008 at 17:19
They were cowards, though. When the Sith began killing off the Jedi, they ran and hid, claiming they would fight back when the Sith revealed themselves. And when the Sith did reveal themselves, they decided to hide again. Not only that, but they nearly destroyed their only chance of defeating the Sith. They saw the Exile as a greater threat, because the Exile made them question their belief in the Force. So again, they were afraid again, this time of what the Exile represented, and tried to stop the Exile, their only ally. They were arrogant enough to assume that their beliefs--which they already doubted--were the only solution, even when the Exile had already proven to be more of a Jedi than they ever were.

#43 - Posted by: GreedoNeverShot (Member) on 05-27-2008 at 19:41
The Jedi Masters hid because they would have all died by Nihilus' hands. (Katarr) Everyone in the story is WEAK except the Exile. Nihilus' consumed himself, Sion killed himself, and all the Jedi Masters hid because they were weak and would have died had the Sith come. It all boils down to... everyone is weak, except the Exile. Everyone attempted to kill the Exile, because they were afraid, they all failed. They didnt understand the Exile and all died in the end. Kreia finally understood, thats why everything became clear for her.

#44 - Posted by: Ragnor25 (Member) on 05-28-2008 at 04:09
If you guys will go back through the game and listen to all the conversations. You will find that JCarter426 is stating facts of the game. But you have to play and pay attention to each conversation. If you want to know where the Jedi 'Knights' code comes from study the old Knights Code. Like the Knights of England or France, etc... :D

#45 - Posted by: A_L_I_E_N (Member) on 05-28-2008 at 05:49
Heeey, Ragnor25, don't be insulting.I know SW by heart more than you can possibly imagine, and certainly more since I am one of those people who updates wookieepedia each month and seeks errors. ;)

#46 - Posted by: Advena (Member) on 05-28-2008 at 17:22
I've finished KotOR2 2 months ago and in my arrogance I've thought that knew something. It seems I was wrong. :) However, I maintain my statement about viewing the world through Kreia's eyes (no pun intended) - did anyone beside her stated that the Exile was the only hope for the galaxy and that only she (the Exile) could defeat the Sith? Same goes to calling them arrogant cowards. They were afraid, yes, but feeling fear doesn't make you a coward. To me it was just Kreia's interpretation. I could also never understand how depending fully on the Force was such a bad thing. On the contrary, when the masters told me ingame, that all this experience points I've earned by killing things came from Exile's bonds, I've started to dislike the character. Feel free to point out my mistakes - I'd like to straighten my view on the game! On the topic: my vote goes to Atris, because I can relate to her egoistic feeling of betreyal that led to her downfall. Fallen champions FTW!

#47 - stupid - Posted by: Revan28 (Member) on 05-28-2008 at 17:29
Don't get me wrong but I can't stand the jedi in this game. I am no jedi hater but I have to question some things. What was their plan? They say they were going to wait for the sith to show themselves. Sure, great plan! Let the sith kill off all the people the want until they think they've won then come out of hiding (and by then there won't be anyone to help them, they either have been killed or no longer believe in jedi because their hiding). They haven't been investigating the sith or training more jedi. They could of at least hidden a few young jedi somewhere so if they get killed the jedi ways will live on. Isn't there some lizard that cuts off the force? Wouldn't that mean that you couldn't sense them either?

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