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| Do you think Palpatine lost the duel with Mace Windu on purpose? |
|Start: 03-09-2009 06:42|
|Last: 03-15-2009 18:51|
|#1 - :eek: - Posted by: franckmaz (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 12:48|
lol this is a serious thing to think about its actually a hard question?
|#2 - Posted by: Darth_Spiderpig (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 12:54|
I think Palpatine have lost. He looses his lightsaber and lay onto Windus feet. If I were Windu, I would have killed Palpatine. It's maybe not the Jedi way, but he killed 3 other jedi.}> no question about it:D
|#3 - Posted by: HyperShadowTheHedgehog (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 12:55|
i dont think so. Mace Windu is much better at lightsaber dueling than palpatine, and for all palpatine knew, Anakin would have been late, and windu would have killed him
|#4 - Posted by: Ty294 (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 13:13|
Hard to tell, but Palpatine did out-fight Yoda. Still it looked like Mace actually did win the duel. Still I think he probobly could have killed Mace with the force lighting but for trying to convert Anakin.
Doesn't matter, it all ended good. I hated Windu.
|#5 - Posted by: battlefrontlover92 (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 13:28|
NO!!!!! mace windu RAWKS :rock:
|#6 - NO! - Posted by: Broken_Box (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 13:51|
NO! Palpatine didn't lose on purpose, the star wars writers don't put that much thought into things, I hate to say. They'll have just thought " Emperor and 4 jedi have fight, 3 get killed, mace wins duel, anakin comes in as mace is standing over emperor, anakin slices mace." THE END!
|#7 - Posted by: sith2233 (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 13:55|
NO! he lost on purpose to get anakin to join him. he made it look like mace was a traitor. END OF STORY. now go wash the van
|#8 - Posted by: Darth_Palpatine (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 13:57|
Look, Palpatine fought yoda and won. Supposedly, yoda was the most powerful jedi alive, save for anakin skywalker. So, P>Y and Y>M. If we string it together, we can conflude that P>M, and so Palpatine lost the duel on purpose. :p
|#9 - Posted by: Gold_Leader (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 14:29|
Yes, Mace is ten times cooler than any Jedi of that era (besides Obi and Qui-Gon). I was really mad on how he died. I mean, didn't Anakin know that Palpatine was the Dark Lord of the Sith and that he had "infinite power" and not just weak? And I bet Mace would have survived that fall if he stopped concentrating on his hand and though about his life and used the Force to slow his fall. He would have easily made it.
So I think yes, Palpatine did lose the duel on purpose.
|#10 - Posted by: GlitchMasterShmit (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 14:32|
Is this a serious debate? Palpatine lost on purpose, you saw how fast he killed the other three Jedi, it was part of his plan to turn Anakin to the dark side. Palpatine knew that the Jedi would come for him, once Anakin said he was going to turn him over to the council. This was a biggie for Palps. Using his power of foresight, he saw that Anakin would eventually come, and if Palpatine played his role right, would succeed in twisting Anakin.
|#11 - @#10 - Posted by: Master_of_Stickmen (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 14:59|
i partially agree, I don't think that Palpatine has the power of foresight, but he is a fast thinker. he sensed anakin close by during the duel, thought up a plan, and viola, had a new toy sith:D. it's so obvious
for being so devious and smart Palpatine gets a }> :donut: (a donut with a side of extra evil!)
|#12 - Posted by: UNIT33 (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 14:59|
Yes, he lost to gain sympathy from Anakin, to gain his allegiance, so he could know, if he were to be trusted, when Obi-Wan came into play...
And the rest is History.
Fear -> Anger -> Hate :eek::mad:}>
|#13 - Posted by: Phantom2745 (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 16:37|
yeah and here is the legendary quote that will conclude palpatine losing on purpose..
" Unnnllliiiimited POWAAAAAA!!!"
|#14 - Posted by: dillonsemrad (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 17:20|
I don't think he lost anpurpose, and how would he know Anakin was goin to show up in the first place to show him that mace was a traitor, and gain sympathy?
O and #9 how do you know Mace died, he could've done exactly what you said. :eek:
|#15 - Posted by: EraOfDesann (Staff) on 03-09-2009 at 17:26|
Mace Windu is officially dead. Anything contrary to that would either be non-canon or a retcon.
|#16 - Posted by: GangsterJawa (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 18:23|
QFT, Era. And for all you people who say, "Palps beat Yoda in swordfight, he's invincible ZOMG!" Look it up just about anywhere and you will find that it says that Yoda was the most skilled in the Force, but Mace Windu was the best swordsman in the galaxy.
|#17 - What really happened... - Posted by: SEALDevastator (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 18:55|
If you watch this scene in the movie it's very apparent that Palpatine did not lose the DUEL with Windu on purpose. Palpatine quickly killed 3 out of 4 Jedi and was obviously fighting without holding back. However, when he took on Mace he got way more resistance than he expected. Mace relied on his superior lightsaber dueling skills to push Palpatine back and then to quickly disarm him. Then when Anakin walks in, Palpatine forms a new plan in his head. He realizes that it was the perfect time to convert Skywalker. At this point he PRETENDS like he's "too weak" to fight any longer. Finally, when Annie chops off Windu's hand, Palpatine seizes the moment and unleashes the full fury of the Force, annihilating Windu. Long story short: Palpatine did not lose the DUEL with Windu on purpose, but AFTER the duel ended Palpatine was faking it to convert Anakin.
|#18 - 123 - Posted by: arcanebop (Member) on 03-09-2009 at 19:13|
For those of u who hate Mace Windu, or think that Palpatine lost on purpose...*cough* racist *cough*.
But seriously, Yoda didnt officially lose. He ALMOST brought Palpatine down, he just wasnt prepared. In the book, it says Yoda spent his entire life preparing for a second Sith War that never came. He never expected the whole bring-down-the-Republic-by-deceit thing.
So I think Palpatine tried to fake it at first, but when he tried to win, he found more than he bargained for or sumthin like that. Anakin turning up was VERY convenient.
|#19 - Posted by: DragonKnight94 (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 05:40|
Absolutely not. Mace Windu was the strongest, altough Palpatine have killed 3 other Jedis. The Sith couldn't know that Anakin was coming and, also if he known, Skywalker could arrive too late. Mace Windu could kill the Chancellor without problems. And if Palpatine defeated Yoda, that was only beacuse Yoda was troubled for the kill of the Jedi Purge.
Sorry for my bad english.
|#20 - yoda lost to P? - Posted by: yukisuna (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 06:10|
yoda lost to palpatine because he was prepared for dueling, and not throwing things on each other! or, he didnt acctually lose, he used force to resist palpatine from detecting him. but, if yoda had been prepared for battling both saber and force, he would have won! but, of course, it needed to end like that, because if not, the first films coming out, ep 4 5 and 6, would have being unaccurate! so, thats why.
|#21 - Posted by: Anakin12 (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 06:32|
Yeah.In order to turn Anakin to the Dark Side.
|#22 - Posted by: Anakin12 (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 06:35|
THink about it guys what I said
1.To make it look like Mace is going to kill Palpatine
2.to turn Anakin over
|#23 - Mace Windu just lost... - Posted by: Djidjiz (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 07:14|
I'll readed some commentary about EP III and they said while anakin ran away to tell windu palpatine was using the force to prepare himself for an duel thats why he took out Kit Fisto Saesee tiin and Agen Kolar (the three jedi helping windu) so fast but while dueling his energy runs out and he gets disarmed and falls Palpatine feels the presence of Anakin coming so he tries to make some time then when he arrives he says some sith talk so he convices Anakin to join him
thats what it sayed.
Now i think Palpatine DID lose on purpose because he feels Anakin coming and he wants him to safe him because Palpatine knows he loves Padme too much and Anakin dislikes windu because he didnt grant him as master so he was prepared for it.
|#24 - I would say "yes... and no" - Posted by: Jendrus (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 08:19|
As some books and comics claim, Windu was the only one who mastered Vaapad - the most aggresive lightsaber style any Jedi ever practiced - and remained on the light side. His technique was to use opponent's dark emotions against him, and that made him the real danger for Palpatine. Sidious knew he wasn't able to defeat Mace (then I should say "no"), and therefore he prepared a hazardous plan that linked annihilating Mace with turning Anakin to the dark side (and that's why I'd vote Yes as well).
To sum up, Windu was superior as a duelist and was the only one able to defeat Palpatine because of his unique Vaapad style, but his crucial mistake was not to suspect Anakin being a potential traitor (as he ignored the real meaning of what Sidious was talking about to The One).
PS. No.1: My opinion is based on Matthew Stover's "Revenge of the Sith" novel.
PS. No.2: I was also mad when I saw how stupid was Windu's death, although everything is possible when fighting against such traitorous beings like Sith Lords were.
|#25 - Posted by: SouthernGentleman (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 08:29|
I believe he allowed it, to see how far Anakin would go. If he could fully give himself unto the darkside, Palpatine could use him as his apprentice and minion.
|#26 - Posted by: 41Tommo (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 08:39|
He kills Kit Fisto who if u know anything about star wars, was a very good swordsman, and he killed him very fast, Mace windu is a very good swordsman but didnt rely on the force much, palpitine used both, i think palp lost on purpose. Pluss after that you see that he's completely calm about it and just throws mace off the edge with no propblem
|#27 - THE REAL ANSWER - Posted by: FighterRex (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 14:08|
Sorry to ruin it for all of you who think the emperor lost on purpose, but it is true that he didn't. About two weeks after episode III was released, several people interviews were done with George Lucas himself. And this question was specifically asked. The answer was no, because, if you look into it, Mace Windu is the 3rd best swordsman who ever lived, next to Yoda (Although some believe he was better than Yoda) and an ex-Jedi, long gone, named DARTH PLAGIOUS THE WISE. Sound familiar? So, this question has been answered. Yet some how more people on this site think he lost on purpose. If you think about it, that really wouldn't make sense. After all, for all he knew Anakin may not have even shown up. And, if that had been the case, he would have just thrown his lightsaber out the window and surrendered, and he was about to be slaughtered by MASTER Windu. Remember Mace Windu is no ordinary Jedi. Sad to think that if Anakin hadn't been married, he wouldn't have wouldn't have needed to save Padme. And if he
hadn't had to save Padme, he never would have gone to Palpatine's office. And if he hadn't gone to Palpatines office, Mace Windu would have defeated him, the Jedi around the galaxy wouldn't have been killed, the Republic would have won the war, and Anakin would have become a master Jedi (as mentioned by Mace Windu in the Jedi Hanger).
|#28 - Posted by: delta47 (Staff) on 03-10-2009 at 15:40|
Palpatine's a loser. He was out of breath at the end. Mace wore him out and no-one can disagree with that!
|#29 - @27 - Posted by: EraOfDesann (Staff) on 03-10-2009 at 16:18|
Until someone provides actual proof that Mace beat Palpatine fair and square, I believe he feigned defeat. He took out three council members in less than a minute and beat Yoda with relative ease. Given his ability to foresee the future and sense the presence of others, it's not so far-fetched to say that he KNEW Anakin was on his way. I mean, gee, he lost that duel at the EXACT moment when Anakin is just around the corner and on his way in. And do you believe that there's NOTHING he could have done to stop Mace had he actually been beaten?
And really, there's no subtle way to portray this. And getting all fanboyish and saying "no wai, windu iz the b3st w/a sw0rd" is just turning this into a trivial matter. To have Mace so easily defeat the main villain, who is supposed to very powerful, is extremely anti-climactic and undermines the threat and power that Palpatine represents. The idea of Palpatine feigning defeat works so much better story-wise.
Guh, I feel like a geek. :p
|#30 - Posted by: cheez_corkerman (Member) on 03-10-2009 at 19:38|
Wow u turds... Palpatine lost on purpose to tempt anakin to the dark side of the force. He made it look like he was going to lose by making himself look weak and making the jedi look like they are taking over. than he said i can save the ones you love. which made anakin go help palpatine....
|#31 - From the DVD Commentary - Posted by: Maveritchell (Staff) on 03-10-2009 at 19:57|
This is a silly discussion, although I'm sure either side could argue until they're blue in the face. Here's what George Lucas had to say on the DVD Commentary:
"Ok, well this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. It always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later cosâ€™ this is it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here and you can see that heâ€™s now that its very clear that heâ€™s, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers."
|#32 - Posted by: EraOfDesann (Staff) on 03-10-2009 at 20:39|
What makes it silly? It's an ambiguous scene that leaves room for individual interpretation and I know it's been discussed to death in other places around the time of the movie's release. I thought this might be a poll with some substance to it.
|#33 - @32 - Posted by: Maveritchell (Staff) on 03-10-2009 at 21:44|
I find that individual interpretation must bow in the face of authorial intent, which has been evident ever since GL kindly spoke up on this particular fan question. Argument or discussion is fine one way or another, and I don't think it's a bad poll or bad discussion, as long as in the end we can all recognize what Lucas' intent was in the matter.
|#34 - Posted by: Master_of_Stickmen (Member) on 03-11-2009 at 12:44|
i don't care any more
but palpatine still gets an }>:donut: (evil donut!) :D
|#35 - Posted by: Andech_Jumiss (Member) on 03-11-2009 at 19:34|
well, palpentine didn't really loose in the first place
|#36 - Posted by: general_marco (Member) on 03-12-2009 at 02:53|
Stop with the cheesy line "Palpatine defeated Yoda"... yeah he did.. woopdie-*******-doo!! So what? Many people don't understand that being powerful with the Force and being good with the blade are two different things. Yoda was superior to Windu in Force use, but Windu was way better duelist than Yoda (for gods sake hes just a rat jumping around) and after all Windu uses Vaapad. It may be considered a better stance than Palpatines Juyo. So my point is that Palpatine is a crappy old man and Windu owned his *** ... TWICE! First he disarmed him and then he burned him with his own lightning! If only that sissy Anie didn't show up >.<
|#37 - Posted by: EraOfDesann (Staff) on 03-12-2009 at 07:49|
I don't think the lightning burned him, I think it unveiled his true face, but that's another debatable topic.
|#38 - Posted by: HyperShadowTheHedgehog (Member) on 03-12-2009 at 14:46|
it is not a confirmed yet that mace is stringer than yoda. Anakin even mentioned Yoda as being wiser, but mace being stronger. The reason mace sliced through 3 Jedi quickly is because the writers and ppl didnt feel like having the emporer duel with 4 ppl at the same time
|#39 - Posted by: grevious (Member) on 03-13-2009 at 11:58|
Windu is amazingly incredible. Had Skywalker not been the troubled teen hew is, Mace would have slain Palpy's a$$.
As for the whole logic idea, P>Y-> Y>M->P>M doesnt make sense.
Luke was weaker than Yoda, but still beat Palpy. And the Yoda / Palpatine duel was decided simply by who fell off the final platform, not who is stronger.
|#40 - @29 - Posted by: grevious (Member) on 03-13-2009 at 12:00|
If Palpatine could forsee the future, he'd forsee his epic failure with the Death Star. He could NOT forsee the future.
|#41 - Posted by: EraOfDesann (Staff) on 03-13-2009 at 12:39|
Outside of the EU when did Luke ever beat Palpatine?
"Your overconfidence is your weakness."
That line says a lot about why Palpatine was killed. He foresaw a lot of things, just as he mentions in the movies.
|#42 - He lost it intentionally... - Posted by: 666rulerofclones (Member) on 03-14-2009 at 07:28|
I think he lost it intentionally, it is so obvious, he knew Anakin was going to come, and we all saw his full power in the end of Episode 3 when he fought Yoda, to top it off, Mace and Anakin argued over what to do, then Palpatine shows his full power and throws Mace about a mile out the window.
|#43 - @ 37 - Posted by: 666rulerofclones (Member) on 03-14-2009 at 07:30|
I thought the lighting did burn him, becuase when he appears as Darth SIdious, he doesn't look all wrinkled and hideous like he does in the end of Episode 3, 5, and 6.
|#44 - Posted by: EraOfDesann (Staff) on 03-14-2009 at 08:13|
I always assumed that he was so consumed by the Dark Side that it had deformed his face and body, and he simply used his powers to hide it. He blasted Luke with a lot of lightning and it didn't deform him. Anyway, if anything, I think the lightning would burn the skin but not transform it. I think it just unveiled his real face, whether intentionally or by mistake.
|#45 - Posted by: general_marco (Member) on 03-14-2009 at 12:36|
I think the reflection of the lightsaber had something to do with the lightning effect on him, cause yeah neither Luke or Anakin in Episode 2 did get such a deforming. But I have to admit that your theory about hes true face is very interesting and maybe you are right. Only the creator knows.. or maybe he doesn't he just says what comes to his mind without a single thought about it :D
|#46 - @40 - Posted by: Djidjiz (Member) on 03-15-2009 at 06:11|
Of course Emperor CANNOT see the future but if you are well trained in the force you can sense people coming who mastered the force too like Anakin:rolleyes:
|#47 - Posted by: MatmanDude (Member) on 03-15-2009 at 10:28|
Nope. Palpy got his *** kicked. Sorry Palpy huggers... :lol:
|#48 - Hell Yes! - Posted by: KommanderKek (Member) on 03-15-2009 at 13:48|
I certainly think Sidious wanted to "lose" to make Anakin think Windu was a traitor.
He probably shapeshifted or something to make Anakin think that Windu did that intentionally or something. As for the whole "foreseeing" buisness, I believe Palpatine could see the future to an extent, because he came back from "the dead" as a clone, and maybe that clone body restricted his foresight, so that may be why he didn't foresee his final demise when he attempted to possess Leia's child.
(Just my overall opinion.)
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